Gamemoderators

[godlik3]

20 days ban should be enougth really!!
It will kill him cuz he knows its gonna be hard to win the season with less 20 days playing!!
Its fair enougth and i am pretty sure he will learn his lesson, like i did the day i was banned 10 days! Doesnt worth make a lot of ppl mad and stop playing by that!! 2 months to much!
Lets all imagine how it will benefit ban fiji 20 days or 2 months:
20 days - pretty acceptable and fiji will lear his lesson, he will sofer if he doesnt win the season and he will be punished by that
2 months - fiji stops playing ( we lose a active, a ltd teacher, a friend ) and a lot of ppl will follow him, so, it will result on less games, less activity, less good players.

[Krumme]

Fact is, fiji keeps breaking the rules and the mods can't keep ignoring that fact regardless of your proper argumentation

[Hutzu]

You guys are the reason i don't play LIHL -_-

To the topic -

ZTX)Fiji is a legend in LIHL and for "some reason" he gets banned by playing a LIHL game. I don't understand why u want the entire league destroyed by that. Obviously he made a rulebreak, but atleast don't destroy the league because u want to show ur bantools on ENT incl. LIHL.
Beepboopbeep is also a true legend and he made rulebreaks, he is still here and is still a legend. You can't kill your own heroes ENT!

And just to go some time back. UAKF.b created this with iigtfyre, sadly we don't have iigtfyre anymore. Now we got diablo_ and i know he wants LIHL to be a good place. So let him decide if he wants Fiji banned.
Ive seen numerous of warnings from Diablo_ and im 100 % sure there is a reason behind that. Don't ban man.

Fiji wasn't banned for "some reason", he initially prematurely kicked achillesgr so he doesn't need to lose ELO. He said he didn't give a flying f*ck whether he gets temporarily unvouched. It would still be better than losing ELO.

This act is unacceptable. No ifs or buts. He got 20 days for the rule-break and showing absolutely no remorse. He had been given several very low ban-times for rule-violations in the past and he had several of them. You'd think he had learnt his lesson(s), but he still hasn't. So 20 days it was.

Then he decided to ban dodge, which was utterly stupid and he got banned for the rest of the season. And he still cannot see he was doing wrong. How blind do you have to be? If it weren't for the admins (the reds, not diablo_ and me) considering the well-being of LIHL, he would be banned on whole ENT for ban dodging for a whole year. But hey, he still has the nerve to see himself as a victim. One time I want to see him accept making a mistake. One time. But his self-criticism is either non-existant or very low.

the only reason i restarted lihl is because of fiji and achilles if fijis quits(he said on facebook) i will quit too(and i am one of the most active members) simple as that.21 days is fucking too much for a person who plaus 4-5 games a day like me and fiji please reconsider .

It wasn't too much for what he did. He had been handled with mininum or below minimum penalties way too often. If we accept such childish behaviour as kicking players in order not to lose ELO, why would anyone else care to keep obeying the rules?
He should have learnt his lesson(s) by now and stop acting like a spoiled brat.

20 days ban should be enougth really!!
It will kill him cuz he knows its gonna be hard to win the season with less 20 days playing!!
Its fair enougth and i am pretty sure he will learn his lesson, like i did the day i was banned 10 days! Doesnt worth make a lot of ppl mad and stop playing by that!! 2 months to much!
Lets all imagine how it will benefit ban fiji 20 days or 2 months:
20 days - pretty acceptable and fiji will lear his lesson, he will sofer if he doesnt win the season and he will be punished by that
2 months - fiji stops playing ( we lose a active, a ltd teacher, a friend ) and a lot of ppl will follow him, so, it will result on less games, less activity, less good players.

He was given 20 days to begin with. Then he decided to ban dodge. If he had apologized and accepted his mistake after kicking achillesgr, then np. He would have gotten 2-7 days (2 if we spoil him again, or 7 if he should get what he deserves), I guess. But the attitude he presented earned him a way longer one. Such attitudes aren't accepted anywhere. If he cannot live with that, then the league is better off without him than with him.

"20 days - pretty acceptable and fiji will lear his lesson"

We hoped he would. But apparently it wasn't obvious enough for him, when he decided to ban dodge. He still practiced his deluded sense of self-administered justice. There is no one else to blame than him.

He had been given several low bans (or just warnings), so he should have learnt his lesson.
He should have shown remorse after kicking achillesgr instead of defending his stupid actions and saying how little he cares if he gets temp-unvouched.
He shouldn't have ban-dodged.

[yolostyle]

I wouldn't see this as two seperate incidents (kicking / dodging ban) because it all happenend with a few days resulting from some kind of "tilt" as known in poker.
If you look at his posts regarding the initial ban, it becomes quite clear that Ragemode was activated. (I don t care just ban me forever etc.)

Thus in my opinion the originial ban length of 20 days should still be fine,
after all the lihl community seems to consider this appropriate punishment (even Chuck, the one who reported states that this is way harder punishment than he had in mind)

Considering this two month of ban just seems like overstepping the actual goal.

Glik3s point are legit a 20 days ban will indeed make it very hard for him to get to the top this time.

If it comes down to Fiji accepting hhis mistakes and changing behaviour then ban him for 20 days and put him on trials basis hereafter,
as in a clear statement - this is your last shot, take it or leave it.
That is a fairer way of dealing with this in my opinion.

And i don't think it's wrong to also consider activity when it is such a small league and, as described by many already, that he contributes to this community, both trough skill as well as helpfullness towards beginners.

[aRt)Y]

activity shouldnt be a reason to shorten bans ...

Indeed.

Although this thread goes entirely in the direction of the other 3, I will let it pass since that's what the mods want. It is a time of waste tho and wont bring anything productive.

[sX.Chuck]

Well i believe this went too far and not only Fiji but everyone in the league now understood the importance of following rules for this society, my point since beginning is only one : if rules are being broken frequently, this league will die slowly but will die eventually, i saw this happen before in a game called FOOTMEN FRENZY 5.4, where we had like 6 clans , plenty active players and the maphack destroyed the game and slowly players quit it. Let's not let this happen in Legion , which its heading to, the example has been given, everyone learned with Fiji mistake and i'm pretty sure if a fair penalty is applied it will surely make the league stronger and the players more fair, but i believe if this penalty heads to Fiji's give up the league loses too much because 1) more players will also leave 2) everyone will think the focus of the league is rules and not the players, since democracy means everyone can discuss and this is what we are doing, i believe there's still time to re-think this punishment and everything can go back to normal. If Fiji didn't know me he would think i'm a motherfucker, but he knows i did that so the order could be established and the players know rules must be respected no matter who is breaking it.
If Fiji comes with an apologize, which is understandable if he doesn't, any chance to lower his ban and things go back to normal? Remember, me and him have seen a really active game die fast because of disease, don't let the anger and vengeance take over, its the first step for a destruction.
10 days is more than enough for an addicted person learn and re-think his attitudes and also realize what he has done wrong, no one is a kid here so we don't need long punishments to get a message delivered, its all about these arguments and opinions by all players, except Donbola ( Dumb ola) which is equal to nothing, that makes we grow as a society, if u wan't a solid league u need an united league and not a spare one, which is starting to happen.

[Hutzu]

I wouldn't see this as two seperate incidents (kicking / dodging ban) because it all happenend with a few days resulting from some kind of "tilt" as known in poker.
If you look at his posts regarding the initial ban, it becomes quite clear that Ragemode was activated. (I don t care just ban me forever etc.)

Thus in my opinion the originial ban length of 20 days should still be fine,
after all the lihl community seems to consider this appropriate punishment (even Chuck, the one who reported states that this is way harder punishment than he had in mind)

Considering this two month of ban just seems like overstepping the actual goal.

Glik3s point are legit a 20 days ban will indeed make it very hard for him to get to the top this time.

If it comes down to Fiji accepting hhis mistakes and changing behaviour then ban him for 20 days and put him on trials basis hereafter,
as in a clear statement - this is your last shot, take it or leave it.
That is a fairer way of dealing with this in my opinion.

And i don't think it's wrong to also consider activity when it is such a small league and, as described by many already, that he contributes to this community, both trough skill as well as helpfullness towards beginners.

Well i believe this went too far and not only Fiji but everyone in the league now understood the importance of following rules for this society, my point since beginning is only one : if rules are being broken frequently, this league will die slowly but will die eventually, i saw this happen before in a game called FOOTMEN FRENZY 5.4, where we had like 6 clans , plenty active players and the maphack destroyed the game and slowly players quit it. Let's not let this happen in Legion , which its heading to, the example has been given, everyone learned with Fiji mistake and i'm pretty sure if a fair penalty is applied it will surely make the league stronger and the players more fair, but i believe if this penalty heads to Fiji's give up the league loses too much because 1) more players will also leave 2) everyone will think the focus of the league is rules and not the players, since democracy means everyone can discuss and this is what we are doing, i believe there's still time to re-think this punishment and everything can go back to normal. If Fiji didn't know me he would think i'm a motherfucker, but he knows i did that so the order could be established and the players know rules must be respected no matter who is breaking it.
If Fiji comes with an apologize, which is understandable if he doesn't, any chance to lower his ban and things go back to normal? Remember, me and him have seen a really active game die fast because of disease, don't let the anger and vengeance take over, its the first step for a destruction.
10 days is more than enough for an addicted person learn and re-think his attitudes and also realize what he has done wrong, no one is a kid here so we don't need long punishments to get a message delivered, its all about these arguments and opinions by all players, except Donbola ( Dumb ola) which is equal to nothing, that makes we grow as a society, if u wan't a solid league u need an united league and not a spare one, which is starting to happen.

My reply kinda fits both of your inputs.

Fiji screws up by kicking achillesgr and shows no regret -> banned 20 days. If he had apologized, we would have reduced the ban. I mean even beyond_average got a ban-reduction (before the MH-case) here https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=41288 Though he screwed it then by posting this https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=41294

But instead of apologizing, he went on with ban dodge. He had a whole day inbetween to calm down. A night to sleep things over. So I don't consider this the same incident. If someone is angry that long, I'd recommend anger-management. The point is, he didn't care. He bent the rules his way and says that it was just. If he had thought that this was just, he could have (for example) ask the mods for permission to do so. Or approach us afterwards. "Hey guys, I got swapped in, sorry if this was against rules..." etc. something like that. But no, he knew he was doing something very wrong and tried to hide it. I'm sure he hadn't asked to be swapped in if a mod had been around.

So Fiji ban dodges -> banned until end of season. Now he left it anyway, insulting me and still not showing any remorse. I personally doubt he will apologize and even in that case, I doubt he would play again this season. His behaviour is unacceptable. And he will be on probation on the new season too, if he decides to come back.

There is only so much that can be tolerated and/or turned a blind eye on, if you are angry.
I understand you guys' point about activity and united front and people not being kids. But how do you explain such utterly stupid behaviour by Fiji?

-Kick player because of QQ of getting bad rolls vs roll-luck and showing no remorse for it
-Having a goodnight's sleep and still acting like an idiot by ban-dodging
-Again enough time imo inbetween before he prematurely leaves and insults me

If he is no kid, then by God he shouldn't act like a spoiled brat. He had been given chances before when he should have learnt. But he kept showing no personal improvement regarding his character and behaviour. What do you expect us to do? Keep giving 2 days for such rule-breaks? Because he will learn, cause he is no kid? We tried that already, plenty of times. No success! It is silly to repeat the same thing and expect a different outcome.

He is obviously not mature enough, despite his age, to understand the consequences of his actions if we keep it low. The past has proven this. So we aren't left with many options. His ban-length is now appropriate. Hopefully he will learn after having to wait about half a season (It started 1st November, so should about end at 31.January). I hope it for him and for the league.

[Qvist]

I am afraid u dint't get my point -

Stop throw the banhammer in LIHL
Stop be LIHL mod Hutzu
Arty u deffend the rules to an extend where im starting to doubt for ur passion for the popularity on ENT

Give Fiji 1 day ban for being a tard = he will think about LIHL for 1 day.
Give Fiji 100 elo loss for being a tard = he won't do it again.

And lets play LIHL

[Hutzu]

I am afraid u dint't get my point -

Stop throw the banhammer in LIHL
Stop be LIHL mod Hutzu
Arty u deffend the rules to an extend where im starting to doubt for ur passion for the popularity on ENT

Give Fiji 1 day ban for being a tard = he will think about LIHL for 1 day.
Give Fiji 100 elo loss for being a tard = he won't do it again.

And lets play LIHL

You do know that banning Fiji and the others was supported by the LIHL mods?
I haven't replied to any of your posts, I was quoting chuck and yolo. None of your posts seemed worth commenting on anyway.

And for the 100th time, we cannot ELO punish people. How often are people still going to ask for it? We can punish the first leaver of a game by adjusting the outcome from 0/0 to e.g. -21/3x +7. Anything else is not in our power.

[Qvist]

U just did a comment on one of my posts?

Final comment.

Treat the best players and treat those who have spent the most hours and has kept the bots active and have been examples on the many legion td players who are playing, particularly 1100+ bot. With respect and friendship.

Atm u just using banhammers and by that, killing LIHL and killing the top of ur most popular game [ent] Legion Td Mega.

[Diablo_]

(Important) Mod decisions are always a team's decision, so stop blaming Hutzu

I just want to repeat where we are currently at:
Fiji atm is permanent unvouched (he made a rage thread in which he said he will leave LIHL for good)
Other than that (at least I ignore such rage leave threads) his ban lasts till the end of the season.
This won't change, unless Fiji tries to change it (apologizing, agreeing that he broke the rules, making a proper post, w/e). He did so to some degree in a talk with me yesterday, so that's a good start.

[Qvist]

Fiji don't need to apologize, i think u should thank him instead.

What direction LIHL wants to go? Ded or alive

[Hutzu]

U just did a comment on one of my posts?

Final comment.

Treat the best players and treat those who have spent the most hours and has kept the bots active and have been examples on the many legion td players who are playing, particularly 1100+ bot. With respect and friendship.

Atm u just using banhammers and by that, killing LIHL and killing the top of ur most popular game [ent] Legion Td Mega.

They are treated with respect, when they respect the rules. If they don't, they lose the respect they earned.

Your opinion seems without any substence. We ban rule-violators. Someone would think this should be obvious...

And your illogical beginning "U just did a comment on one of my posts?" is kinda funny. You do realise that? I comment on chuck and yolo, but you tell me I don't get your point. So then I say your comments weren't worth commenting on (of course I meant the ones prior to my initial post...should be quite obvious). And now you say "U just did a comment on one of my posts?" Well, silly, you just addressed me, so I replied. What kind of proof is that?

[aRt)Y]

Stop throw the banhammer in LIHL
Stop be LIHL mod Hutzu

It's rather simple. You either have
A) a league with rules enforced by moderators in a competitive environmental or
B) a league without rules, therefor no moderation with the result of a non-regulated non-competitive gaming enviromental - perhaps comparable to pub games if not worse since no rules except the general ones apply there.

The inactivity of the league is not the problem of the moderators but of the players who want(ed) the league.
I will stress it again, ENT appreciates the activity of the league, however, we just provide the infrastructure and not more. It's the players' job to be active and to choose in which direction they wanna go. We will not adjust punishments based on lacking activity. Nor will we be lenient with players only because they are useful - else "I could abuse as admin 24/7 and remain in the position because I am useful". A mixture simply doesnt work because it is the least objective way to handle things.

What direction LIHL wants to go? Ded or alive

That's just a dumb question... The moderators dont decide where the league goes - the players do that. And if they decide to violate rules and thereby ignore a major factor of competitive gaming, then fine. Not the enforcement of rules is harming the league but the attitude of some players. You all have voted for the mods in charge and you all - more or less - could discuss the rules which were added/decided. And you know - when you join the league - that there're rules you have to follow.

And now, stop blaming the LIHL mods for doing the job you all agreed on.

Arty u deffend the rules to an extend where im starting to doubt for ur passion for the popularity on ENT

popluarity != having dozens of bobs violating rules without punishments. Popularity comes from a working league. People will recognize its quality and will have the desire to join it. I doubt players would want to join it if there're players who dont get punished for what they are doing. If you just want fun on a higher level, then join a priv hosted ltd game with ENT - no mods, no rules. Hf.

I prefer quality games over ruined ones. If you cant follow simple rules, ENT is no place for you.

[MarshMallows]

This has turned kinda retarded.

I love Fiji and I wanna see him back but lets get this straight.

There are rules, he broke them, he gets banned. Why is this difficult to understand?

As far as the perma unvouch, we all know this wont be the last we see of Fiji in LIHL, so lets not get too hung up on that.

There are some reasons why ENT is the best for legion in the world and they are imo:

1] Elo system
2] Moderated well

You go on ucw and there are 3 leavers by level 2 and that is what you get when rules are not enforced via bans.

Fiji fucked up and got unvouched, most of us do this once in a while, he then got pissed off and handled the unvouching badly and it ended in him basically getting a time out. As far as I can see, if he simply says I am sorry and that he reacted badly to his unvouch, he can serve his original ban and we can forget about this and he can play lihl again. We all want to see Fiji back asap, but ban dodging is a bit of a dick slap in the face to the mods decision... we can all see that really.