Stat are ruining the experience

[VirusHunter]

It's funny that's the truth. Most of the time bad stats player never listen to other player giving them suggestions on how to play or what items to get. Either that or they just don't understand English. So I would say it's Stats and Realm both ruined the game. Why can't we just go back to the old ways, west plays west and east plays east.

because warcraft 3 tft is no where near as popular as it used to be. now everyone plays star wars or wow or cod
but to what the other guy was saying. people dont stack ent nearly as much as they stack dotacash. plus ent is the first to come up with their solution to stacking with the a-bal games. now no one wants to play abal games because usually the higher elo players get screwed by having 4 noobs on their team who dont know how to play, dont speak english, and or refuse to listen to the more experienced higher elo players. and then for my experiences with a-bal i have had bad luck with that exact thing multiple times while the other team has 3 players over 1200 elo. im not saying elo really has everything to do with how good a player is but if were going to be "balancing" the teams with this then maybe correct how elo is gained or lost. each person should gain their own elo not a set elo that is set in the begining of the match. so if i go 12/1/16 against an average team of elo say 1300 i should gain more elo than someone on my team who went 2-8-15 or worse. none the less. back to what i was originally going to say about this post. if you are good enough. then you dont have to worry about what the other team has. just play your game the best you can and the best players will win.

[VirusHunter]

also i have been playing dota forever since back when sa had death ward as hit ult lol. and ive played every hero countless times. that being said if i were to play an ap game i would either pick one of my heros i love to play or counter pick. either way like the others have said. if you dont like seeing the same heros played then dont play ap. i hate the ones who cry about what heros are picked in apem games lol. its quite funny. but i do feel like the SD spam solution was made when they have each players stats come up when they join games. other than that there really isnt much they can do. getting rid of !sd is not an option. its the reason people play ent dc and bgn. otherwise its just another dota game.

[Madlib_]

Sorry. Disagree with OP. Stats best thing that ever happened. Now no time wasted loading game only to find out you're playing with mentally impaired space monkeys after the first 2 or 3 waves.

And it was already said, but DC waaaay worse on the stacking front. And they tend to abuse kick in lobby. Huge pain in ass if you just want to play.

[cyberpunk]

I don't play dota but when I play others games like LTD or Castle Fight, ppl wants to play against me, to gain some ELO. :3

[Grimlorn]

I agree the rating system is broken. IMO only games that are balanced should be ranked. You don't match high rated players against low rated players in other games, Why allow it here? You can still have the regular games. Just disable the SD system in them and make them unrated. That way there is incentive to play auto balanced games, and people can experiment in unrated games.

I've been playing ab games and they are much more fun and even, usually with a lot of back and forth, but you rarely get any good players in it. Usually only one 1200 elo person on each team, and the rest are about 900-1k elo. The high rated players won't touch it because they are afraid of losing elo. Same with stacking teams. They won't join a team that isn't stacked for fear of losing elo.

[cyberpunk]

IMO only games that are balanced should be ranked

you are shooting in the dark, every player has a different idea about balance.. :3

[Grimlorn]

IMO only games that are balanced should be ranked

you are shooting in the dark, every player has a different idea about balance.. :3

It's just my opinion. It would make for better games. I don't understand what you mean by idea about balance. Isn't that the whole point of a rating system though? To rate people with similar elo's as somewhat equally skilled? Why not then spread those people out on each team instead of always putting 1200-1500 elo players on one team and 800-1k elo players on the other? That's much further from balanced than my idea. You also can't trust players playing within a rating system not to try to exploit it by stacking teams. They don't want to lose. It's a pretty serious problem.

I've seen teams of 4 players with around 1200+ elo leave because one sub 1k elo player joined their team. It's ridiculous.

[cyberpunk]

IMO only games that are balanced should be ranked

I believe you're talking about the map/game here.
Now if you are talking about autobalance by elo, where the bot shuffle players in lobby before of game starts, I don't think it will make a big difference, also some playes rather to play with their mates when there's elo. :3

[Grimlorn]

IMO only games that are balanced should be ranked

I believe you're talking about the map/game here.
Now if you are talking about autobalance by elo, where the bot shuffle players in lobby before of game starts, I don't think it will make a big difference, also some playes rather to play with their mates when there's elo. :3

Yeah I'm talking about Dota and autobalance by elo. If people want to play with their friends that's what the unrated games would be for. No autobalance, no rating.

Was playing a few autobalance games today, and 2 guys were on the same IP and played on separate teams at least once or twice. Didn't keep them from playing against each other. I know the cons are not playing rated games with friends, but I think the benefits of actually having balanced games and not such a bad rating system outweigh the cons.

[VirusHunter]

I agree the rating system is broken. IMO only games that are balanced should be ranked. You don't match high rated players against low rated players in other games, Why allow it here? You can still have the regular games. Just disable the SD system in them and make them unrated. That way there is incentive to play auto balanced games, and people can experiment in unrated games.

I've been playing ab games and they are much more fun and even, usually with a lot of back and forth, but you rarely get any good players in it. Usually only one 1200 elo person on each team, and the rest are about 900-1k elo. The high rated players won't touch it because they are afraid of losing elo. Same with stacking teams. They won't join a team that isn't stacked for fear of losing elo.

abal games suck. let me state that first. why? because thats the mode the nooblets play. the reason why high elo players dont like abal is because like i said before. say i join an abal game. my elo is 1500. the chances of someone on my team with above 1000 elo is slim now. and the way abal works im not sure but its not right. ive played atleast 10 abal games and every single time. im the only one with a concept of how to play on my team while the other team has atleast 3 1k+ players.

if you want to play an unrated game. make a new account and play on it. if you dont want to lose. get better. if you dont want to play against stackers. then dont. ive been accused of stacking numerous times because i play with my brother. and its just me and him so its hardly stacking if it only 2 players who know eachother on the same team. so let me ask you. would i want to play with my brother? or against? yeah... obviously with. so when we join abal games. were never on the same team which is fine but it is a reason we dont play abal. but as far as being afraid of losing elo? no i dont think there is many players like that. especially because its too easy to gain it right back if you do happen to lose. and the serious players play tier 2 anyways.

on your other post you say you have seen a team of 4 leave when a 1k elo joined their team. now you are just speculating that is the reason why they left. when they could have left to pick up their 5th. or even if they did. so what? we all have the right to join and leave whatever game we want (until game starts ofcourse). its not a serious issue.

It's just my opinion. It would make for better games. I don't understand what you mean by idea about balance. Isn't that the whole point of a rating system though? To rate people with similar elo's as somewhat equally skilled? Why not then spread those people out on each team instead of always putting 1200-1500 elo players on one team and 800-1k elo players on the other? That's much further from balanced than my idea. You also can't trust players playing within a rating system not to try to exploit it by stacking teams. They don't want to lose. It's a pretty serious problem.

I've seen teams of 4 players with around 1200+ elo leave because one sub 1k elo player joined their team. It's ridiculous.

i disagree with what your idea of a rating system is. it should be based on your skill. regardless of the people you play against. when teams "stack" they are not gaining much elo. maybe 5 at the most. so its not like their elo's are going to be too flooded. most of the ones complaining about elo and the system are noobs and they are mad that no one wants to play with them. and can you blame them? no one wants to play with the nobs of this game but we do it because we were all once there. maybe they should make an unrated mode for noobs lol. so the noobs of the game can "experiment" and learn how to play lol

[NutzSucksHard]

maybe they should make an unrated mode for noobs lol. so the noobs of the game can "experiment" and learn how to play lol

Or just go download the AI map and train, till you've learned how to play?... Honestly, this game is out from long long long... ago. We have now a version 2 of it. I have nothing against stacking'.. What people don't understand it's when they're teaming. Like clan buddies. etc. If you want to win, honestly, I play against the stacked one. Why?.. They understimate you, and all other. They pick sensless carry / hero and trying rambo. If you stick together, keep working hard on push, back, rosh, farm, gank, ward, and everything, that all listen to other. You might win. Stacker's are, I want mid, No me! I have better stats etc.. They don't care much about the game... They want to do a One Man Army. Most of the time, sometime they cooperated and it bring the stuff hard, I agree. Still, it is 10% of the time. And how will you learn, if you always get carried? You need to fight against better then you, otherwise nothing would happen. Trust your skill over other one, you know your good and that you can do it. if other's listening to you. This egal to lot of babysitting, saying b, pinging them to not go there, organise the gank wood, mostly of the time buy ward. But, in the end, you win? That's A win. Not when everything is in your hand already. ImO

For the elo part. Well, play against a stacked team is perfect to me, I grew over 12/15 elo the game sometime I get 18! and 20 Even with 1500 higer elo *-* SWEET... Over 2/3... And if I lost these stacked... I lose over 28 elo... That pretty much hurt.. And you wanna get it back with the 3 elo / game. Ok, it mean you've gotta play 10 game for one lose. Thats kinda horrible. Thats why, AbAL got implanted.

For exemple, I stack, we lose, -28 elo in bank. If I keep joining normal game, even when I'm the first in, people !sd Nutz and follow me, whatever I'm doing... So in AbAL game, they can't, cause it will shuffle player . So there we go, I've lost 28 elo in one game, how to get it bacK? play two abal win average 14/15 elo. Then you go back stacking.

Day start : 1600 elo. Lose 25 (round number) = 1575 elo after one game. Play two AbAL and win = 15 elo each (15x2) = 30. After three game you have : 1605 elo. You go stack and win 5 elo, you end up the day with 1610 elo.

If you didn't went in AbAL and win 5 elo per game (with 1575.. it's hard if you stack to have this thought.) you would had to play 5 game only to get back to your normal elo, wich mean 1600. So in the end, you will play 6 game in total, to be at the same point you were at the beginning. Compare to the other (AbAL game), you've been higher, for only 4 game. If your a great player, do the math, you're wasting less time with more efficient gain on elo playing these kind of game.

Nutz-

[Strikest]

The problem with ELO, is that DotA is a team game. And Elo is measured by W/L. So it is not an accurate representation of a person's skill level, but rather how lucky they are in getting a team that doesn't suck.

[VirusHunter]

the thing about it -nutz is i dont really play for elo. i play to have fun and to win. i would play abal but like i said most of the time i play with my brother and we never get on the same team. that being said i do agree it is crappy when u lose a significant amount of elo. generally because you should win those games. if you are favored above 25 im sorry there is no excuse for losing. regardless if there is team play or not. ive single handedly won games as im sure most dota players have so if your that stacked you shouldnt lose. altho i guess you could have a couple players with say new accounts on the other team who are really good if not decent. either way. abal is good and bad just like regular games. they both have good pros and cons.

Or just go download the AI map and train, till you've learned how to play?...

or you could do that too lol

[Reallife]

It takes forever to start games now. People join games and !sd spam to try and get on a stacked team, then leave when they can't. Then the replacement does the same thing then leaves if they're on the lesser team. Is there anyway to disable !sd within the game lobby at least until the physical game starts? This is coming from a below average player. Everyone gets psyched out before the game even starts its not fun.

Re: Stat are ruining the experience

Postby coldduck1020 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:07 am
Same heroes with the same items. People would rather play Huskar and Barathrum every game then try other heroes and hurt their stats.

i totally agree with u.
u could solve the problem a bit, by removing the elo. u can leave the stats but dont rate them. when s.o. wants to know s.th. about s.o. he can see win loose avarage, kills deaths assist and creepstats. that informations are enough. and it will take time to calculate them in mind to ur own opinion so the game can start fast and u also have the chance to know s.th. about your allies and opponents.
it became horrible to play becaue of the behavier of player just due to elo.
as an example take me. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5240
those guys tortured me alot just because of 870elo. they flamed me the whole time, spammed like hell and made us loose because of that spammes and blinding the map and they refused on purpose to def and decided on that way that we loose. and ofc i was the mean one who should be responseable. that was one the most horrible games ever. (and i played over 6000 dotas since 22.2.2003 (dd.mm.yyyy)) in the next game, the brought it over the limit. again the flamed me since the first minute and made me fail because i was just deffing in chat and cant concentrate on game. when i decided to ignore them (note that i didnt squelch), guess what that assho#### have done... they kick me! they spammed and flamed in all chat and paused the game 6 times and saved it 2 times, till they made all to kick me. 2 others from the game, met me a some games later and i nearly got kicked again, just because the 2 idiots who flamed me told them alot of lies aso, which were transportet in the new game. i`m thankfull that they got banned for it, but sadly only for 5 days. i nearly stopped playing dota and wc3 because of that games.
these things would never happen if there would be no elo at all or only in balanced games. thats one of the reasons why sig was so highly popular and made dotaleague big. u can see what would have happened if they wouldnt shrink the stats to the sig games... another thing was the strict rules for the games and the good balanced punishments.
i would really advise u to change the elo system to the dota-league-sig-system. it would also solve the problem from the 2nd quote. if kills and deaths no longer matter, everyone is free to pick what he wants and what is good for the team. i really think that u could get popular and honored (in parts ofc) like dota-leagu was, when u change the systems. u already have a brilliant stat page and replay page which is already better then the pages of dl. also u should add more rules to the game. copy as much as possible from sig and u will succeed greatly. i promise! and if u need help, i would be up to help u with the work of reports and examine that the rules are followed ingame.
i really hope, that you follow my advices as much as possible.
sincerly yours,
Reallife[iPP]

edit: and another example... a retarded team. one with 5 games, one without stats and they thought they are the pros in front of the lord. i had 1:2:2 with drow after 15min... 1 death was deserved... and what did those retards? they kicked me for NO reason... just because of stats. "if i had stats, they would be godlike and not like urs" again the spammed allchat, paused several times so i got kicked.

[NutzSucksHard]

Just wondering.

i played over 6000 dotas since 22.2.2003

So why your stats so low? You're experienced. I'am experienced.., so maybe your elo should been higher, even the K/D ratio? Nope?

And there

edit: and another example... a retarded team. one with 5 games, one without stats and they thought they are the pros in front of the lord. i had 1:2:2 with drow after 15min... 1 death was deserved... and what did those retards? they kicked me for NO reason... just because of stats. "if i had stats, they would be godlike and not like urs" again the spammed allchat, paused several times so i got kicked.

Just make a ban request for it. It's against the rule to kick someone without valide reason.

I don't want to talk much here over the stats. Just, wondering about this funny thing that jumped on my eyes .

Thanks for the answer. After it, I'm leaving the topics to other