[Poll] Should we remove the no clog rule?

[Diablo_]

As there are many unfair situations with the no clog rule lately and many players complain about it + we mods aren't happy with the (current) rule either, I want to get your feedback
Note that the poll outcome won't necessarily decide our actions, it's meant as informative feedback to help us in the decision making.

Now, let's get to the real part, including some of my thoughts.

• Clogging will always happen. No matter what rules we come up with, clogging can and will still happen to some degree, be it (secretly) on purpose or not.
• The "fair" players currently often have a disadvantage, because they are not only not (ab)using clogging, but also because they don't expect it from the other team (since it's banned) and will often be negatively surprised by it, resulting in unfair outcomes. Allowing clogging would set the playing field to the same level for everyone, because all players would know the other team might clog and would also be able to use it themselves.
• Removing the no clog rule would result in allowing all forms of clogging, people could push and leak as much as they want, with no limitations.
• Those who absolutely hate clogging can avoid 4vs4 games and focus on 2vs2 and 3vs3 games where clogging will happen less often and also will have less impact.
• The only possibility to really get rid off clogging would be an improved map, which sadly is just wishful thinking and (most likely) will never happen.

[Psyclone]

Voting yes. Even though not being satisified with it at all

[MichaelSong]

I voted for No.
https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=49139
Please remember clog rule was made due to leak massive at 5,6 and finish at 7.
If we do remove this rule, we cannot prohibit this.
Don't forget the big one, to get rid of small one.
I'm pretty sure 5,6 -> 7 happen again by accidentally or intentionally, and will bring up more huge complaints.
I have to admit that current rule is not transparent enough, but it's better than finishing up at level 7 with 4 heals.

[yolostyle]

Can we keep the rule dont purposely leak lvl 5 and sell lvl 6 to kill lvl 7 rule?

I mean there are different types of yolo... those that go 7/3 and can hold lvl 8/9 good.
or The ones like mortar who need lvl 10 gold to recover and leak lvl 8/9.

Obviously if u have mortars or waggons someone with a crap roll you will leak hard 8+9 that shouldn't be forbidden.

[MichaelSong]

The main problem is if we remove rule, we cannot prohibit players by selling towers.
Some can say "Why is this problem?"
Let's give you an easy example. Level 17.
One of reason to prohibit intentional clog is level 17.
There was past example which some player sold about 1000~1500 value of towers before 17 starts to clog more to win. He did win with 0 heals against 3 heals because they leaked like 80+ and sends didn't even arrive to boss while opponent king died with 3 heals.
You will face this situation, losing against 0 heal opponent with 3 heals due to massive clog.
Decisions will be made by LIHL Players, but I hope they do choose carefully.
For me, downsides look much bigger than advantages.

[elektro]

make a new rule that prohibit selling towers, and implement a rule that prohibit aswell suicide yolo. But delete the clog rule since most of people dont agree how u apply it.

[Achillesgr6]

i will not vote

let active people vote..last 24 days i play only 37 games

[Krumme]

Achilles xD

I agree selling towers should be banable also not recovering after a certain lvl should be banable aswell - this should prevent full yolo and keep people on their toes regarding skill.
Personally I think if you haven't recovered for lvl 15 it's too big a yolo you've made but again all kinds of factors is relevant here. Leaking to king on both sides = easier recovery. Getting sends = leaking more = harder to recover etc.

Just a thought.

Another idea could be to keep the no clog rule for 3s and 2s as there in theory still can be clogged there but I REALLY would like there not to be if you catch my drift.

anywho - remove the current rule is probably for the better as it's somewhat flawed.

[V1rus]

I voted no... not perfect rule is still better than no rule imo. With no rule the lvl 5,6 max clog starts again. Can't play 4s anymore then which would be sad

[HealByColor]

I feel by getting rid of this the skill factor of the game will be taken away. Pretty much what lihl is about the best players getting together to play a public player could easily go beta strat. Meaning no more league.

[GoatsBeGone]

Here is the solution. If every one in the team leaks a level past lvl 3 u lost the game. Simple as that. I mean noone suicide incone on lvl 2 or 3. This would avoid 4 x incomer since u have to have a holder on 7 even with immo.

I know there will be situations where someone get 4x mortars or something like that and they will feel limited by this rule. But b4 someone say that this rule will punish them, i would just like to say that if u sit on a combo like that or something similar, your advantages are allready huge, so this shouldnt be a reason. And then there will be the cases where people go "we cant hold lvl 5 with these units" I simply dont belive that, 4 people, 24 units, as far as i know u can get around 1000 value for lvl 5, so u should be able to hold lvl 5 with atleast one of these units, now that you are the best players. It doesnt even have to be for the entire game, this only has to be basicly 6 rounds, 4,5,6,7,8,9. I know this seems rather confusing but if you think about it would be fairly simple rule, and it will be a fairly simple rule for mods to controll, and no situation where they have to evaluate wheather or not the rules are broken. I know i know, this is comming from me, banned twice in a month for rule breaking. But I don think that this rule would be the perfect solution.

[Wolke]

For me that sounds like a bad idea, with all leak=lost it´s just unfair for team who didn´t get the right units. The other team basicly needs 1 send to scout( warri with even 2 archer would work) and then save let´s say straight 8 against harlot holder. Even if you have an aqua who has around 900-1000 value he can never hold straight save. I prefer no clog rule but many small rules instead like: no clog 5 6 wyv gg 7, no build bad unit´s un purpose to leak harder, no selling towers (maybe only t1 or t2 unupped or bottom feeder). Also a rule like that: all player should try to recover for an specific lvl(scientist->should be strong 17), but with excpetion because i think banning player for an unlucky game (bad units, send at wrong lvl can happend)
So my idea would be to get rid of clog rule and add some more specific smaller anti clog rules. If you have ideas for it go for it.

[elektro]

Here is the solution. If every one in the team leaks a level past lvl 3 u lost the game. Simple as that. I mean noone suicide incone on lvl 2 or 3. This would avoid 4 x incomer since u have to have a holder on 7 even with immo.

I know there will be situations where someone get 4x mortars or something like that and they will feel limited by this rule. But b4 someone say that this rule will punish them, i would just like to say that if u sit on a combo like that or something similar, your advantages are allready huge, so this shouldnt be a reason. And then there will be the cases where people go "we cant hold lvl 5 with these units" I simply dont belive that, 4 people, 24 units, as far as i know u can get around 1000 value for lvl 5, so u should be able to hold lvl 5 with atleast one of these units, now that you are the best players. It doesnt even have to be for the entire game, this only has to be basicly 6 rounds, 4,5,6,7,8,9. I know this seems rather confusing but if you think about it would be fairly simple rule, and it will be a fairly simple rule for mods to controll, and no situation where they have to evaluate wheather or not the rules are broken. I know i know, this is comming from me, banned twice in a month for rule breaking. But I don think that this rule would be the perfect solution.

3 players, including me, got banned 2 days for "clog" when we had a holder, the 4th player.

[elektro]

I agree with wolke.

[GoatsBeGone]

"mods banned us for clogging with a holder" this exactly proves the my idear for a rule is much less stupid than the existing rule, this way there is a specific guideline for what u can and cant. The mods wont have to evaluate every single case. But just look at the replay and see if any violations. and this whole thing about towers is nonsence. Yes a tower like blaster or ygg or harlot is better on 7. But u can basicly hold with most of the towers, and quiet decent if u just stay 3/0 or something which you do as ygg now allready, i mean infantry, tot, polar, hydra, archer, spawn, god, lod, druid, mermaid, hellraiser, captain, helicopter and the list goes on and on, so many towers u can hold 7 and 8 with and u can hold it well, the chance of a full team getting 4 rolls which basicly cant hold anything is like 0%. u can maybe reach about 1350 value with 3 leakers on your team on 7, with basicly any unit u can hold 7 with that, u must remember by doing this the opponent will have their holder also 2/0 with no chance to send anything so the sends will be smaller this way. atleast thats how i see it. I think this would save the mods alot of work, and it would do alot of complicated things less complicated for everybody

One of these days archol held straight save for 5 with mass violets. There are towers that are better then people think, but because 99% of all games everybody goes income, noone learns to play with these towers. season 1 and 2 and 3 i swear to god ba fail and beep they could play every single tower in this game they knew exactly what held or not and when to go income. sure we can just make no rule at all and let people start all over leaking on lvl 4-7 and clog and win. but i highly doubt that the majority of the league wants that, and i think that this is the way to get less clogging, or maybe I miss something