Feature Suggestions / Changes

[Burn]

I think beep has brought up a nice idea about balance.

It's either:
1)Supporters (Or even all builders) have to research escapes at the start
2)Supporters (Or even all builders) don't have to research escapes at the start

These top two are the most important ones, and will be the ones being discussed. There are other, listed below, that I don't think should be necessary.

3)Builders that have less than 4 workers have to research escapes at the start
4)Builders that can gold early without building a lumber base have to research escapes at the start

We have to think about the fun/nerf/buff factor. If we remove escapes from the start and make them researchable by lumber/gold, we will nerf the builders, and make it a lot less fun for the builder. If we give escapes from the start, we will buff the builders, and make it a lot more fun for the builders.

The buff will make it harder for titans to get an early minion - A good thing for Island Defense,
The buff will make it so that builders get a lot of early gold - A bad thing for Island Defense - gives more reason for a camping playstyle.
The buff will make it a lot more fun and means the builders can play a bit riskier. - A good thing for island defense.

Now, since we are talking about supports:

Tauren is too OP at the start, but that can be changed with a non-fortified armour change. Titan only needs to WW attack twice, wotw charge, attack another, nuke.
Mag is actually too WEAK at the start, he needs to have WW at the start, like all other builders who have escape abilities at the start.
Morphling used to be the tankiest of them all, with 400hp with an additional 130-180 damage spell negate. Now, he barely has time to cast it, but is a tiny bit better at re-walling.

Sure, builders getting early gold is terrible, which means titans have to camp, but is a camping titan really all that bad if he knows how to buy wotw and ward blocks? I think this is what the meta has come to, and think it is fine. In inhouses, no-one will feed with lumber bases besides upgraded walls, so it's still better to just camp mid anyway.

My conclusion: Tauren is still risky at mid without fortified, so he does not need another early game nerf.

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

B33P you literally just named something good about Tauren (Charge) and then told us the 100% counter to it (WOTW). Every ability in the game needs a counter and that counter needs a counter. Thats the way you "generally" design a builder when you make it from scratch + if you invest 10g into wands any good titan can guaranteed kill the Tauren with a little space. Theres no reason to remove his only escape at the start or he will just end up never being picked.

Also literally noone complains about builders having tp at start which requires WOTW to stop so why so much against Charge 24/7? or Makura having slow aura tp and wall walk..... 3 amazing abilities.... just saying

I agree with Burn.

-ShadowZz

[n3w_3ra]

B33P you literally just named something good about Tauren (Charge) and then told us the 100% counter to it (WOTW). Every ability in the game needs a counter and that counter needs a counter. Thats the way you "generally" design a builder when you make it from scratch + if you invest 10g into wands any good titan can guaranteed kill the Tauren with a little space. Theres no reason to remove his only escape at the start or he will just end up never being picked.

Also literally noone complains about builders having tp at start which requires WOTW to stop so why so much against Charge 24/7? or Makura having slow aura tp and wall walk..... 3 amazing abilities.... just saying

I agree with Burn.

-ShadowZz

Since when is enfeeble not an escape its basically frostbite. 10g on WotW is definitely not a 100% chance for a kill, their are many factors to that scenario. The TP ability has a long cool down and when wotw'd is completely useless and is a weak unit. Makrura has wallwalk but that is an extremely hard skill to master its not as simple as pressing a hotkey and clicking. So please if you have anything to add at least be honest about it and not so opionated.

Edit:
ver .99

Balance
Added a 10 second cooldown to Wand of the Wind.

Can we nerf charge now?

[Burn]

-DG double the gold income. Not as OP as -DXP, could be a useful mode to have, especially for inhouses.
-NF No faggots mode. Builder leavers will leave behind all units and buildings and give fully shared controls to all builders, and random builders into the game if the games is not full. This prevents builders from leaving to deny a minion and/or feed, and prevents builders to AFK into observer slot. Could be a good mode for both pubs and inhouses. (haven't thought of a good name for this mode yet)

Make computers and fakeplayers in lobby to spawn builders that give all builders shared controls.

Also, make all the HCL available modes apply to in-game commands for single player mode.

Cheers,
-Burn

[ShadowZz]

@burn currently having discussions about the "NF" mode for about 3 - 4 weeks if that makes you feel better

[Burn]

Yes, it does. It's a necessary mode that we should try out for at least 30 days for experimental reasons. The reason why I suggested it as a mode is because if it is not a good default mode or is buggy, we could always just turn it off. It's highly necessary for inhouses though.

EDIT:__________________________________________________________________________________________
New Suggestions!

Could you make Mag/Demo/Tauren as fast as a 3.0.9d Mag? I'm not sure of the numerical values, but the tooltip said "very fast" in 3.0.9D.

Thanks,
-Burn

[ShadowZz]

Buildings staying behind as standard is the current discussion. IMO the actual builder staying behind should be a mode just for ih. However I still think it should be bannable to leave to prevent minion.

[Burn]

Make Lucidious' heal like an AoE heal so that it doesn't have to waste time bouncing, or make it instant? Minions die during this time pretty easily and it's a lil' fustrating. :/

EDIT: Make one LAST change to all escape abilities to ( E ). ( W ) makes way too many misclicks from walling, one of the most common buildings in the game. Make all offensive skills ( Q ), ( R ) for spell book, ( E ) for spell book.

[ShadowZz]

Yes, lets make wall walking easier, great idea......

[Stealer]

@neco

Don't let the gold tower + egg result in the same gold tower.

[narbtit]

Shieldmate, 1 egg: Make target invincible for 5 seconds. Can be used to save builder at mound, yourself, buildings like walls, anything. Would be like rad's shield except targetable. Cannot target enemies(titan).

Windy treasure, 1 egg: Wotw target unit for 5 seconds. Can be used on friendly units and yourself if you want to go for a ride. Can be used to cc titan, or even save a friendly unit from an incoming nuke bounce. Or cc a builder for titan.

Fishing hook, 2 eggs: Skillshot, pulls first target hit towards its caster, 800 range. Can hit any unit, including builders, mini, titan, neutrals.

Retaliation, 1 egg: When the holder takes damage, knockback the attacker 250 distance.

Boat ride, 1 egg: Create a boat that you and a one passenger can travel in, even in deep water. 500 hps.

Air ride, 1 egg: Create a zeppelin that you and one passenger can travel in, 500 hps.

Turtle upgrade, 1 egg: Upgrade greater turtle so that it can also carry you and one passenger.

Walltrap, 1 egg: Cast on wall, takes 5 seconds to activate with visible animation. Lasts until wall is killed, only once can be active at a time. If wall is killed, the killer is stunned for 3 seconds, whoever that may be, titan or builder.

Barrelmaster, 1 egg: Allows you to find gold in barrels, 5g each barrel. Barrels recharges once a minute.

Hen, 1 egg: Spawns one hen with 10 hps. Your pet hen lays an egg evey 7 minutes.

Fishing rod, 1 egg: Allows you to catch fish from deep water. A fish can replenish 500 health instantly or be sold for 5g.

Lizard tamer, 1 egg: Allows you to tame lizards. Each lizard has 400 hps and can repair buildings. You can have up to 5 lizards at once.

Monsoon, 3 eggs: Causes extreme rain, flooding and chaos on the entire island. Causes rain weather animation. Every second titan and all minis move 50 distance in the direction of monsoons floods, which occur in a random direction each game. All titan and minis have reduced movespeed by 20% due to flooding for 30 seconds and can't regenerate mana. All builders become cold except mag and lose 10 hps/s for 30 seconds. Lucidious is unaffected by monsoon.

[TooNoobForU]

all of these ideas are from Narbtit
(just making it harder to get)

Shieldmate should be 2 eggs and 2 scales since invu is pretty overpowering cd of 2min cd

Wand For Builders : 1 egg 2wands but how can titan punish it? since it wont be punishable ( titan doesnt have workers to deto) 2min cd

Fishing hook ? (pudge hook) : 2 eggs + 1 Trident 700 range cause titan nuke is about 600-700 , 800 would be 2 op 2min cd

Retaliation is a good builder skill i would recommand for (or furbolg) mag to have it since ww is a shit skill. but if its for a item i would say knockback + 1 sec stun, allowing the skill to be worn like a cloak (spell) similar to morphs shield lasting 25sec cd of 2mins. 2 eggs + 1 scale and tridrent


air ride 1 egg + tp, the air ride would last 3min, cd of 360sec, movement speed of gob hero, hp of 250hp, and yourself to ride it, upgradable +2 eggs for cd of 180sec allowing 450hp. (has 2 open slots)

boat ride same thing as air ride

Turtle upgrade is op its already 1 egg for greater turtle + another egg for narbtit idea so 3 eggs... maybe it would work IF the movement speed of the turtle would decrease to a normal buidler speed since a turtle is pretty fast

Wall trap(stun wall) : 1 eggs 3 scales 300hp wall 2 sec stun , one at a time as narbtit suggested, cd of 2mins , 1 egg upgradeable to 500hp 3s stun

lol barrelmaster: 1 egg ummmmm a gamble chance of 0.1% for 45 gold , 1% for 30g, 5% for 20 g, 10% for 10g, 50%, 7g and 70% for 5g, cd of 30 sec ( every usage cost 300wood)
(please place lots of barrels in game)

Hen: 1 eggs + gnoll tracker : spawns a small factory spawning 1 little chicken droping 1 egg with 1k hp to kill ea factory is cd of 7 mins(reusable 2times)

Fishing rod: simliar to that RPG game where you catch fish for food and survival... loool this is on chance again . 300hp replenish stackable cd of 10 sec, 1 egg + 2 pots + 1 ward. 45% success rate for catching fish, fishing rod cd is 1min per throw (1 at a time) (useable only on builder) range of 300
max stack is 10

Lizard tamer (charrm as a item) : 2 eggs + 1 healing ward, for usage cost 1.5k wood and 6food, max 3 lizard hp of 400hp repair buildigns.




also can you make Items stackable for builders? (like 3 demo stone stack) or 2 pots

[Burn]

Yes, lets make wall walking easier, great idea......

Actually, most of the time I misclick my escape is when I don't have my shelter control grouped due to it getting destroyed when I full deny, and I try to train workers. I rarely misclick my escape when I wall, but I know others do, it's especially entertaining when a waller gets flown to the other side of the map when a Demo tries to wall a base.

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

There are lots of things wrong the that sentence "a Demo tries to wall a base". *no comment*

Hotkeys are there to be universal and there's a very minute group of people who seem to have an issue with them. You can always just change they hotkeys yourself to whatever you want......

[Burn]

(Q) is a better escape hotkey then (W). How can you even argue against it? There's no argument. (W) is commonly mistyped, (Q) is not.

The only argument against it I see is people crying about hotkey changes AGAIN, but I think this time it's very worth it.

-Burn