Stalling as builder.

[Sabishii]

You can just watch replay and see how the mag stalls.

[Burn]

You can't even stall as mag for long against a decent titan, it's simply not possible, unless you're a God tier run tagger.

The two best stallers are sat or demo. I've stalled 60min +++ games as demo against decent titans because he was being lazy and wasn't trapping properly.

I've also played 60min +++ games as satyr, because a fed satyr is incredibly hard to kill with wall walk + invis + dash + sixth sense (mh sense).

With no other builders have I stalled for that long.

EDIT:

Sure, it is annoying, having staller builders who don't suicide is annoying if you are titan. But so is a quad base.

Ask yourself these questions:

1) Is it annoying for titan? Yes. Absolutely.
2) Should the builder be obligated to suicide or leave the game just because of his team-mates mistakes? No, definitely not.
3) Does the titan get to play? Yes.
4) Does the builder get to play? Yes.
5) Does the builder stalling ruin the game? No. Both sides are still playing, albeit cat and mouse.
6) What is the builder's purpose? Stay alive as long as possible.
7) What is the titan's mission? Kill all the builders.
8) Should the builder be faulted for doing what he is supposed to do? No.
9) Should builder stalling be banned? No.

These are yes/no answers, 6) and 7) being a short answer.

-Burn

[Stealer]

@Sabishii you had 65g all you had to do was neutalize the mag at 46mins in and he was dead....

[Photon_man24]

Perhaps not useful in the discussion of rules, but in this particular case I'd like to spotlight a fairly new item called "Wand of neutralisation". It's a 15g consumable that can remove most builders buffs like radio's shield and panic. You can even remove Magnators Polar Wrath. This makes killing a big Magnator in a seed much easier ^_^.

Edit - hmm Cambrioleur beat me too this comment, I guess this happens when I don't scroll to the bottom o_O

6) What is the builder's purpose? Stay alive as long as possible.

-Burn

I think I disagree with this part. The builders goal is to either kill the titan or achieve a stage where the titan can't possibly kill any more builders.

[Merex]

The builders goal is to either kill the titan or achieve a stage where the titan can't possibly kill any more builders.

A builders goal is to survive or defend against the titan, a worthy victory will come after, hence why Island Defense is a survival game. There are more basers then there is supports and our strength is very slim hence why such comment was made because realistically that is how it generally plays out. Only when we die is when the titan has built himself enough strength to break through our defenses.

Of course, there is the possibility we can overpower the titan with current offensive builders (Demo/Mag etc.) but that chance can fade within 1 early minion + a decent titan and given that most games doesn't revolve around mags/demos but maybe 1-2, that's why it's more logical to assume that a defensive position is where we stand.

[n3w_3ra]

This game is ancient. This game is no longer a bunch of retards making 50 walls to block a 4x4 gap. This game is more about the titan surviving now. 3 demos summoning dubs in 3 minutes into game start. This isn't "survive and defend" anymore. Its you better get good feed with first two pearls or everyone already has 45 gold. This game isn't MLG and will never be MLG. Ban the stupid cunts that stall at the end of a game. I dunno how many times I've chased a demo, sat, tauren, w/e around. If you can't build a decent base to defend you should sui at mid. Its polite, shows good sportsmanship, and allows you to enter next lobby nice and fast. Sometimes these games last an hour. After an hour of microing with titan and 6 minis you don't want to chase a satyr with 700 HP or more around with den walk and tp wands. And Idc how "counterable" it is because I have done it and its so easy to live vs even a pro titan especially as demo. Just my 2 cents and if you disagree, grow up and play the game with sportsmanship and maybe the community will grow and stop withering away to dust.

[Neco]

How about a system like normal WC3 ladder where if you're the last builder alive without a base (determined by completed structure count in an area? Or something... Not so important) then the game will end with the Titan's victory after 2 minutes.

Alternatively could just grant vision of the builder and their structures, but this wouldn't help much against a Demonologist staller. It would however, be more interesting and exciting (as Burn said, running from the Titan is actually quite fun for the builder most times).

[n3w_3ra]

Sounds like anything would be an improvement over the current system, I would go play sheeptag and choose wolves if I want to chase someone. /thread

[Merex]

Your argument is merely a titan's perspective and not a general one, though I will agree with you in some areas. Banning stalling builders is little on the impact because the game is still active, it's still running. Whether you personally find it annoying or not, it doesn't break the game because the builders are more than open to be killed, infact a titan in a late-game scenario is more advantaging by items/man power. The only issue that people are arising is merely from qq-laziness.

A builder's perspective here is to still survive, still have an ounce of entertainment from clearly losing a game. You say you want good sportsmanship and yet you're asking the last builder to just openly suicide him to a most likely pubstomped game, then where's your challenge? It seems the same titans follow the same mindset. To put this simply into your own terms;

Grow up and accept it.