Let's talk about run tagging (sheep tagging)

[Burn]

A) Favourite builder to run tag with for 3.0.9d? 4.0.0? Why?
3.0.9D Tauren - Tankiest shit in the game, you can charge on third hit without dying to a lvl 1 nuke I believe.
4.0.0 Demonologist - Slow poison spider and health stone really saves your ass, but you still have to nether on first hit.

B) How do you personally run tag?
I use timing. But there are other ways, like shift clicking, but personally I think that takes too long to setup, but it's harder to make a mistake.

Queued sheep tagging:
1) Right click
2) Shift buildding
3) Shift right click away from building (optional, not recommended for delay run taggers)
4) Cancel with [ESC] when titan is near
5) Spam right click to get best auto-pathing to set-up for next runtag

C) Post your videos and replays!

I think these two videos were when I was in my "prime". I could do this all day without fail, timing spot on even with ridiculous delay. I'm better placement wise these days, but the timing is sometimes off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKfTNFQz208
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9PauQyqHc

We really need more run tagging replays/videos, I don't think there are any other WC3ID videos showcasing good runtagging. My next videos will have more Demo runtagging because of this.

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

Wait, what?

Move, Shift build, Shift move? That means the Builder will have to fully finish constructing the building before he starts moving again. Or in the case of an Undead summoner, the Builder will spend idle time doing the build animation (which you can cancel by issuing a command, as I'm sure most of you know).

Am I misunderstanding something here?

[Burn]

You're forgetting the escape to cancel building, which instantly makes you move. It's tested in singleplayer and works quite well for RC building. You could also do this at a choke point if you had the time. It'd look really cool. (human builders)

For undead summoning, it's true you can't shift move after building the building.

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

Oh.. I never thought that you'd cancel the building before moving.

If the Titan is bad, it will work, of course.

But if he's good, I think it will probably have little to no effect on his velocity towards you. See below why.

--

Disclaimer: This is all just speculation with ZERO testing done by me. Feel free to criticize.

Here are my thoughts on how to counter this as Titan:
- When chasing, try to get vision, obviously.
- Shade/Phoenix/Eye are good "permanent" vision providers for a chase.
- Only burn your Pearl when needed.
- Spam shift move in small steps, and as soon as a sheep tag building goes down, do the following:
- Spam move near it and then right click it when you have vision of it. (Otherwise buildings at the top of slopes will pwn you so hard...)
- Shift queue move commands so that you continue moving as soon as the building is destroyed/cancelled.

Things to consider:
- Save wards to ward block seeds / disrupt wall walkers / block choke building position.
- Scout Chim to drop items ahead and prevent ww through seeds (Mag, Pirate, Nat).
- Shade to block just like you would with a ward. (Demonicus)

Questions (things to test, if nobody knows for certain):
1. How exactly does pathing work when you right click a building to attack it, when:
A) You have vision of the building.
B) You don't have vision of the building.

2. Does pathing act differently depending on your elevation level?
A) If you are on low ground, and a building is on high ground, and you right click it, what happens? What is taken into consideration? (E.g. fog)

3. Does Demonicus' Shade block WW'd units? (I think not, since it's probably just a permanently invisible, normal collision unit. In which case you can use it to block Builders - even Panic/Charged Builders if you're good. Op. Though needs set-up since Shade is so slow. Wotw -> Shade block gg.)

--

Looks like more stuff is to be added to my to-test list.

These things are important to experiment with and experience, so you'd know exactly what you should do in certain situations.
E.g.:
- I am a Titan, chasing a Builder.
- They just walked up a slope and I have no vision.
- I expect a wall to be sheep tagged at the top of the slope. What are my options to suffer the least from fog/pathing? Etc.

--

Opinions?

PS: Oh shit, I just realized how I kinda derailed the topic - didn't notice Burn's intentions with the A) B) C) -_-.

Will edit later.

[n3w_3ra]

16 armor morph warrior >

[Burn]

If you are a good run tagger, a single titan should be no problem. Hell, even minions should be no problem, as long as you do it well enough and have enough health so you don't get nuked down.

The cancel building thing is good even against good titans, because of war3's shitty auto-attack, and especially good when titan has delay. When you cancel the building and if the titan is close, it will switch the target to the builder. If you place a wall down right between the titan and your buidler, the titan will try to hit your builder, and go around, because there is a building blocking the way.

The shift queue wall thing is just a trick, to delay the titan and it's just a thing I thought up to do in-game to put in a youtube video. A decent titan can just use wotw and kill most run-taggers with ease.

Answers to questions:

1A) The unit will move towards the centre of the wall until it is in range then try to attack it.
1B) The unit will move towards the centre of the wall until it is in range then try to attack it.

The problem is when it actually does try to attack it. When you go close enough to attack it, you must have vision of the wall to attack it. If it does not have vision, it will cancel the auto-attack. This is especially prevalent when sieging, the titan will walk towards the centre of the wall, then it will cancel auto-attack and try to attack the towers, which are obviously not in range. You can still attack walls by just spamming right click at the wall, or moving just under the wall then attacking it, but this costs time, and time means damage. This is why it's recommended to always have vision of walls in a base when sieging, either through floating eye, or bases like vagina or bot right where you can see the walls without floating eye.

2A) Yes, slopes are fucky, the auto-path lines are always fucky, to counteract the fucky auto-path lines, you're supposed to spam right click so it re-draws new lines every time.

3) Shade doesn't block units, but is blocked by units. It's also killed by radioactive burn, and blocks builders from building, like wall walking.

It's fine, I don't mind it when people de-rail my topics as long as it pertains to constructive discussion about ID.

-Burn

[CarlosT]

Sheep tagging is good because it makes you survive longer!

[Nigth2]

Sheep tagging is good because it makes you survive longer!

...
my god

[CarlosT]

It's funny how run tagging is better than not sheep tagging