Which leaks should/shouldn't be allowed

[BA_Fail]

These are the kind of leaks that can affect the outcome of a game. If I missed any let me know, and I just want to know your opinions on which should be allowed and which shouldn't.

[supersexyy]

This is kinda a silly poll. The poll should be about what should be banned

[BA_Fail]

woops i'll fix my vote then, can't really change the poll title or the choices so just take into consideration that you are voting for what should be allowed

[Miyagi]

Well seeing the new current LTD map which is already being played in public games, has significantly reduced the clogging of units, rules such as these will not have to be implemented.

If anything, if the new map shows consistency without any game breaking bugs or glitches, then we should see it being played in LIHL asap.

[Krayyzie]

The building of any units in front in order to delay, only exception is if you send the next round... For sure, there is absolutely no point in deciding a game 50 minute game by whoever is "skilled" enough to put a few units infront of your others to make sure you die slower.
Clogging pre and after 10 also for sure.

However. I do not believe there should be any 1 player rules, as this is a teamplay game and people who get vouched should be good enough to actually understand that. I personally wouldnt have any problems with banning people from pushing without any ability to hold next few levels, However, this will do what other people been worried about, rolls will decide everything as yolo units and stuff will get Insanely powerful compared to shit rolls.

1: If you leak hard...like for example the ban situation with law3 yesterday, it does NOT create enough time itself to gain such big advantage because units in mid from allies kills units quite alot faster than a king with no attack and mass hp/regen.
And you actually have people covering you when you leak. In a team based game I do not believe that is such a big abuse.

However, When a full team goes 7/4 pre 7(or even 3 players do it and 3rd goes for "barely hold his lane", and leaking 100 units and gets 5 minutes of king kill to get income(on purpose), and also leaking another 50-80 on 8 without any enemy sends, this is the maxing the abuse pre 10, and happens quite alot, this is very toxic and Needs to be removed.


added after seeing miyagis post

No, the new map fixes some clog issues, but it does not fix the 100 leaks to king and kill slow to gain income with 4 leakers...Alot of other positives been fixed tho, for example clogs on levels when both teams die, no heals wont happen, antistuck abuse will be gone and so on

[BA_Fail]

I've actually never had a problem with anyone using any of these, but there is just no skill in any except the 3rd option. Maximizing the use of your units should be a priority. If you are aqua, why would you ob on 7 if u can hold lvl 8 with low value? The point should be to show how well you can use your units.

[Krayyzie]

Well, the it goes into a rule saying "with those units you are allowed to abuse", but with "those" you have to play like that, and with "those" you can play like this or this , but not like that.

Easiest way is to make a rule you are not allowed to clog as a team, need to ban the Abuse factor, not allowing certain units to abuse and others not.
I think the overall rule setup when it comes to clog is that you can NOT clog , no matter what, and clog can pretty much not accur in 2s, it can in 3s and 4s, and that is when 3 or 4 players are leaking heavily.
And in 3s or 4s, it takes some serious unluck to get 6 rolls without any possibilities to have 1 holder, and 8 rolls in 4s, if a team would for some reason be that unlucky, yes, then they would be forced to stay low and hold to not abuse, there is luck involved in rolls, and will always be.
And tbh, i cant see why it would be worse to loose becaues you are insanely unlucky 1 game compared to loosing 100 games due to abuse

[nabo.]

Purposeful clogs should be banned ofc. It is true that most clog cases is a team resultant, but the only thing that concerns me is that penalizing the whole team may not be a good idea. Since dc penalty is back and people care about their elo so much, may be an elo penalty for clogging will be more effective than unvouching people and create room for lihl inactivity.

I think suiciding is one way of playing LTD, but I think only one player (may be two) should be allowed to suicide out of four-man-team.

No, the new map fixes some clog issues, but it does not fix the 100 leaks to king and kill slow to gain income with 4 leakers...Alot of other positives been fixed tho, for example clogs on levels when both teams die, no heals wont happen, antistuck abuse will be gone and so on

Considering everything, the new map is better than the original assuming there wont be any game breaking bugs. Only way to deal with 100s leak would be to limit king ups or make it so king has to have 18 attk on lvl 8, for instance, instead of lvl 3 or 6. But, with the new map, a lot of the " time stalling" due to exploitation should considerably be reduced.

[Qvist]

So guys, after so many games so many hours and still little clue about when clogg is critical?

I will tell you guys by going levels 1 by 1 -

Level 1. Not possible to clogg with the benefit of your team.
Level 2. Not possible to clogg with the benefit of your team.
Level 3. Not possible to clogg with the benefit of your team.
Level 4. Possible to clogg, but if you do so - you will lose 90 % of your games.
Level 5. Possible to clogg, this is the first level where clogg is usefull and can be extremely usefull for your team to leak 100+.
Level 6. Possible to clogg, but if you do so - you will lose most of your games.
Level 7. Should never be a banable offense to leak 7. (Hard level)
Level 8. Possible to clogg, but this is the first level where it isn't really usefull to clogg.
Level 9. Possible to clogg, but this is the second level where it isn't really usefull to clogg.
Level 10. Not possible to clogg.
Level 11, if you leak level 11 - ban team.
Level 12. Possible to clogg, but doesn't matter.
Level 13. Important level according to clogg, very possible to clogg hard here and win a race - (Clogg ban on this level)
Level 14. Kinda the same as level 7, possible to clogg but should never be a banable offense. (Hard level)
Level 15. THIS is where the ban hammer should fall, if you clogg on 15 you simply win games 95 % of the games. (Clogggggggggggggg level)
Level 16. Can be a race, clogg can win. (its rare)
Level 17. The exact same as leve 15. (cloggggggggggggggggggg level)

And so on.

So to sum up, these levels should be considered clogg abuse and mods should maybe ban players on these levels: 5,13,15,17.

If you leak/delay tactic on other levels, let it be a skill to handle that, never a critical moment on other levels.

[Krayyzie]

Sorry, last post is true on the fact that those are the levels you can kill the enemies/race situation, but clog advantages are just as strong on levels you dont mention as a problem
Lets do some math on this

Lets say the difference with the team playing with 1-2 holders(as the main reason for game is not to leak 100s of units), an average income with 1 holder and 1 semi holder or 2 holders, could be..lets say around 7/2? seems pretty right when u got one player holding with 3/0 or 4/1 or something.

Enemies, who does this yolo abuse and pushes max with 4 players on level 4, fun numbers, this means they leak 80 units on 5, 15 on 6, 100 on 7, and 70 on 8. and got an average income of 7/4. Average difference beetween those 2 teams are around 14 lumber/player/10 seconds.

From Start of 4 when those pushes begins, till end of 8 , there is 3 minutes beetween levels, level 5 lasts for 3 mins, 6 lasts for 1,5 mins, 7 lasts for 4 mins, and 8 lasts for 2,5 mins( The numbers are not exact)
But lets say the time for those levels when 1 team is clogging and suiciding fully is 3+3+1,5+4+2,5 mins, total of 14 minutes...

14*6 = 84 rounds of wisps gaining lumber, 84 rounds * 14(7 wisps*2lumber) lumber, that would be around 60 income/player in average compared to the team that actually plays to hold

That does actually give an advantage of
1: You have max king and can play without kinging for 10 and after 10
2: You have gained about 240 value/player pre 10 From income, and another 60 Per player for every level after 10, this is a Critical advantage you get from clogging
3: And since you have pretty much maxed king on 7, you can actually even send to take those heals back on 10 that you did loose from doing this move on 7


This has to be changed, the fact that this abuse is more or less part of every 4s, in one way or another, is just killing alot of gameplay.


4(when pushing, but not clogging), 5,6,7,8 are the 5 levels when the main part of the clog abusers gain their big advantage, even if the games doesnt finish on those levels

[Psyclone]

From my experience, I can tell you that:

-Clog before 10 (especially for big send 10) can be fatal and is highly abusive. Thus: Clog before 10 should be banned (!ff applies).
-Clog after 10 can be countered. People use clog/delay after 10 only if they anticipate a race. But by clogging after 10 (means at least 1 player constantly leaks) the enemies know for which level they are going to send + get vision on their units. That provides them a fair chance to counter the clog strategy. Thus: Clog/delay after 10 should not get punished.

My definition of clog: A team leaks 50+ creeps in 2 consecutive levels < lvl 10. Independent of value, units or whatever.

[pewpew lasergun]

we all know the solution, to implement is hard.

4s should be mandatory -hpmmcb
its the easiest and most effective solution.

the other viable solution is to have a map maker add a new mode: no king gold for own king, only from enemy king.

[SLSGuennter]

@ba_fail ... i think the outcome of the poll will be kinda shitty, since most people will read "what should be banned" just like supersexyy said.

Anyway, all the cloggthings should be disallowed imo, cause its glitchabuse. But leaking every round (without clogging) is fine, since this is a legit way to get more time without abusing the mechanics.