New ELO system

[Ultimate_aMaYa]

I was wondering if it was possible to re-consider the ELO system.

I mean, how many times u lost because of noobs in your team who leave the game, or who don't heal or build wrong while you doing very good ? and still u lose as many elo as they did = unfair.

Same reasoning when u win, there are some people who are carried all the game and they get same +elo than you ? = unfair.

I think ELO should take in consideration the player skill .... not only lose or win or team will keep stacking etc...
And ELO is actually ranking PLAYER not team, but you get ELO if your TEAM win = doesn't make sence.
ELO system should take in consideration the score + income/lumber + King upgrads/control + units build/placement/leak etc..

Discuss

[HealByColor]

I like this idea but unsure how hard it would be also the score doesn't make sense sometimes

[Ultimate_aMaYa]

Yea I know it gona be hard and score doesn't mean u deserve all elo, but has to be considered as an indicator of success. Kinda like the indicator of leaks, most kills, most income, most value, creep sent etc

And for the losers, for example, the guy who left and/or didn't heal = lose more elo, I have many example in my head of many games in which u win but had some guys who didn't play as a team (didn't help upgrad + didn't save to send with us+ leakers) and still got as many elo as me/others. And many games u lose for those reasons aswell.

[uakf.b]

The goal of the game is to win; your score shouldn't depend on how you go about winning. If you have several players with low ELO on your team, then the average team ELO will be lower and you'll lose less if you lose the game.

[Ultimate_aMaYa]

ikr, but I'm complaining about the sharing points. Some deserve more than other ... win or lose all players has influenced at a different level ftw or ftl

[BurritoCarcass]

I think he is suggesting using a tsr system like dotacash. In this stat system, you have an elo and a tsr. Both are dependent on winning, but tsr (true skill rating) is more based on your game performance and you gain or lose it based on how well you play as well as winning and losing. For example, if you are carrying all game, but noob player forgets to heal or decides not to, then he would lose more tsr while the carrying player would lose less. Also on dc, their high ranked games are dependent on elo and tsr, this avoids having bad players in games. I talked to uakf.b not to long ago about making a tsr system for dota too. I highly suggest it because it actually shows the skill level of a player. Getting over 120 on cash is pretty hard and anything over that signifies a really good player. Consider it maybe and I would be happy to help in anyway I can. Hope you like the suggestions!

[Ultimate_aMaYa]

This tsr suggestion looks great ! Hopefully uakf will like it

[BurritoCarcass]

Glad you like it, I hope we can get it to dota too. I hate being measured by elo instead of skill. So many stackers have high elo but repetitively get carried. It's getting old, we need newness and truth.

[uakf.b]

The only difference between TSR and ELO is that TSR changes more quickly if you have less games played. Neither takes into account "performance" during the game; the only metric that matters is winning/losing, because that is the goal of the game.

In DotA, assist heroes are just as important as carry heroes, and just because someone doesn't get as many kills or appears to have a "lower performance" during the game, there's no reason why they should not gain any less ELO. Similarly, awarding higher scores to specific events favors specific strategies, which is fundamentally flawed: the goal is to win, and any strategy that a team chooses to use to achieve that goal should be measured solely on whether or not it achieves it.

So, if a Legion TD Mega team decides to have one player miss a few creeps to push some creep to the other team, that player shouldn't be penalized. This is just an example.

If someone is carried by players with higher ELO then the entire team gains less ELO.

For example, if you are carrying all game, but noob player forgets to heal or decides not to, then he would lose more tsr while the carrying player would lose less.

Incorrect, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueSkill for a few formulas/description.

[supersexyy]

The elo system is right the way it is.
The only thing that can make it better is if people stop making new accounts.

[Ultimate_aMaYa]

You got one point "supersexyy" , people keep making new account . Many has like 100 win for 2 loses xD which doesn't make sence at all.

I've lost 200 ELO in 1 week, I blame these new account + noobs !!!

[Ultimate_aMaYa]

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6265

check this replay. One guy of my team is afk at start and just build a unit of 75 golds = he leave level 2. Another guy of my team have to go (btw he looks very noob + he map hack) so he leave level 8 i think, so I play with another guy vs 4 guy.

--> if I lose the game I lose 20 elo, if I win I get 10 elo = doesn't make sence when you consider we are playing 2v4 and that I'm top score/income/kills etc ... so I lose 20 elo even tho 2 noobs/leavers ruined the game.

[HealByColor]

You would change the game it wouldn't be a team game if you did tsr no one would save or anything

[supersexyy]

If noone started any new accounts, the ELO system is the most accurate system.
Mechanically it is better than toying with the values depending on in game stats.

[uakf.b]

You would change the game it wouldn't be a team game if you did tsr no one would save or anything

This also isn't true, because like I said, TSR is the same as ELO except it takes into account the number of games you've played (so value updates more if you have fewer games played). That's the ONLY DIFFERENCE.