ID rule clarification

[Merex]

I don't like how everyone keeps talking about titan's skill factor here. Just because someone isn't super skilled, does it mean builders can stall as much as they want? How is that fun for new players (especially titans)? How are you going to get more people try titan if there is yet another reason why it sucks balls?

If someone can allow themselves to be put in this position then why shouldn't skill be applied here? I mean, honestly it's just basics. The initial goal a titan follows whether be new or skilled is to kill all builders, if they don't kill all, then their goal is still productive. You can say it's annoying and game ruining to have 1 builder stroll around the map but even an entirely new titan would still put it within their effort to try and kill him - Again, there are more advantages even by simply having minions to be able to find a builder than have a builder escape for his life.

Basically, I find this suggestion to be partially accurate but simply too many flaws to actually be ban-worthy. Assuming said staller is a regular player of ID, what will the appeals consist of? The questions? Like I said to aRt)Y in the chat yesterday, if I was banned for builder stall, I'd defintely point out some of my own in my ban appeal because it's literally a 1v1 against a titan with several minions and a lone 300hp builder if any. The intent is to ruin is hardly there either, because a builder is surviving. If this is made into a rule, then it defeats the purpose of the game.

[aRt)Y]

We are talking about the skill factor because we also consider newbies when judging a case. Especially, votekick and feeding cases are based on the players' skill. Point is, I wont agree on banning something when the majority is capable of doing it or you just arent smart enough to do it.

Do we ban wallwalking? No.

[ShadowZz]

Just a query.... Stalling for titan is ban-able under the constraints that the titan has no chance to win the game. In the "stalling" situations were talking about the builder has no chance to win the game. All he has is the chance to spend 10mins walling himself in and nethering or wall-walking until tp is off cd. He has no chance of winning. His only chance in to stall until he dies (eventually). The problem comes when most people who don't care about elo would simply leave vs a staller builder because it's pointless and it ruins the game. If one builder who has no chance of winning and is not trying to win by definition because there simply evading death instead of trying to kill the titan via a base for example. Then they are intentionally ruining the game no?

If your running around with no intent of killing the titan and only to survive then you are not trying to win. Technically they should be banned under a different rule but to be honest I'd just add it to the stalling.

Question: If someone starts to stall the game as demo walling in solo and nethering. If IO go sit afk at mound for 20mins then I can know be banned for stalling because I'm intentionally not trying to win as per the current rules, correct? Because a builder can't stall and the only person stalling in that scenario would be the titan, correct?

[idtitan]

!support concept of builder stall.

I've been there as a titan hunting down a builder(s), however skills being pertinent in being able to hunt down the builders In general. I think there should be a set rule to put a cap on these shenanigans. I watched a game that Fr0styz was titaning in, hunting down a murloc with a teleporter lasted about 10mins. I kept urging him to share minions, and spread about the map as grouping 8 minions together made for a slow moving horde. There are certainly things that can be done to avoid this from happening as a titans perspective. However if the titan has made it that far he does disserve the win, I agree with @Haunt that we should protect the noobs who want to titan. Winning a titan game is a feelsgoodman moment and can easily attract people to the game.

Cheers

-Kent

[Merex]

Just a query.... Stalling for titan is ban-able under the constraints that the titan has no chance to win the game. In the "stalling" situations were talking about the builder has no chance to win the game. All he has is the chance to spend 10mins walling himself in and nethering or wall-walking until tp is off cd. He has no chance of winning. His only chance in to stall until he dies (eventually). The problem comes when most people who don't care about elo would simply leave vs a staller builder because it's pointless and it ruins the game. If one builder who has no chance of winning and is not trying to win by definition because there simply evading death instead of trying to kill the titan via a base for example. Then they are intentionally ruining the game no?

If your running around with no intent of killing the titan and only to survive then you are not trying to win. Technically they should be banned under a different rule but to be honest I'd just add it to the stalling.

Question: If someone starts to stall the game as demo walling in solo and nethering. If IO go sit afk at mound for 20mins then I can know be banned for stalling because I'm intentionally not trying to win as per the current rules, correct? Because a builder can't stall and the only person stalling in that scenario would be the titan, correct?

A builder's objective more isn't to win, but to survive. Yes, when there's down to 5- builders and they're all either cramped in a base or mega fed enough to equal their summon power to the titan then, that'd be a more standoff/winning scenario but in most cases, builders initial goal is to survive against the titan. Every builder evades death from the titan, they win by towers/summons, not by melee'ing them to death. If a builder spends 10 minutes trying to evade death with the intention to survive, then that's pretty much the goal also, no?

As aRt)Y said, we don't ban wall walking and that's an easily evasion from titan just off pure skill whether it be down to 1v1 or 10v1, or when people leave mound to evade death of a possible WW/returning titan. Yes, it's beginning game and people won't just suicide obviously the goal is to win/survive, but how should that be any different from late game? A demon's goal is to support/survive, he still holds that same intent even after 10-20 minutes. Besides, who's to say he's not trying to win by gaining 90g and growing more powerful? Again though, any titan with a basic knowledge of consumables can easily prevent any of this.

Going off the ''protect new titans'' or ''make the game more attracting'' isn't it attracting already to know you're in the superior spot against a lone builder with no where to run but to hide in bases? Implying that, you're new of course. A new titan would easily be as partially confused as he was in the beginning then he is in the end, also, I hardly doubt a new titan can even put himself in this type of position. Though, if there's a replay out there of a 1v1 against a completely new titan and a demo/support. Do share.

[ShadowZz]

By that logic ID might as well be sheep tag. We could just sheep tag wall the map and never die. Builders goal is to win. In winning it is "implied" that you survive. That doesn't mean that if you have no chance to win then surviving is fine.

Guess what. Titans goal is to survive. Not to die to bases. Not to die to summons. Maybe stall rule all together after all titans are just "surviving".

Edit: Nobody stalls with the intent of surviving. They stall because they want to see how long they can piss someone off because they lost.

Edit 2: Literally nobody enjoys this shit. No titan in history has ever said "I'm so glad hes running around the map tping even though I've clearly won". Why defend something that clearly only pisses players off and is counter productive in making the game fun and preserving it's play ability.

[Merex]

Except that isn't a titans goal at all. Wanna know why your logic is flawed? A huge level 7+ titan with an army of minions isn't gonna die to a lone builder. The scenarios differ in advantage by a long shot.

Edit: I was speaking in that scenario to a more new titan Point-of-view. Of course your everyday pubstompers aren't gonna like the idea that they have to do more work to get their countless wins.

[ShadowZz]

The builder obviously has no chance of winning. The builder is deliberately stalling in their own opinion, it's not like people say "let's see how long I can survive!" they say "Let's see how long I can stall". I mean seriously no good comes of builders stalling. Jut 10-20mins of pointless bullshit that a titan would be banned for.

[aRt)Y]

It doesnt matter how you define stalling for this rule (to piss ppl off or to win); neither does it for the titan rule.

What I want from you are conditions to avoid pointless bans due to all the scenarios possible for builders.

[ShadowZz]

Stalling for titan is already judged on a case by case basis. Yes theres a flat 10mins rule and the 20mins no kill rule but most cases are judged on whether the mod thinks they were stalling or not. Why would a rule for builders need a concrete yes or no? It would simply be "Builders will be classed as stalling if they have no chance to win and are intentionally stalling the game - for example mass wall bases while waiting for tp cooldowns or no wood or gold with no chance of basing." Word it how you want, it is what it is.

[aRt)Y]

Well, until you understand it and come up with something creative, the suggestion to add a builder stalling rule remains denied due to justified concerns of pointless bans.