Azeroth Wars Autohost

[Hannibal]

Map Name: Azeroth Wars Genesis 1.27B
Link: https://www.epicwar.com/maps/257942/
Number of Players: 12 (Full House)
Problems with map: N/A
Why the map should be Autohosted: Recent Azeroth Wars developments have left Azeroth Wars Genesis as the only Azeroth Wars map actively and aggressively being developed (Currently .27A). We have been hosted and well received by players on Makemehost and I have even seen Genesis hosted on the ENT server a few times. Both Rhemar (LR) and Talinn (Origins) would support Genesis being hosted on the ENT bot as it is very polished, bug free, and requires no BETA testing out of its player base.

See: http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... ans.20067/
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... ans.20068/

[nabo.]

Are you suggesting this as a separate autohost? or to replace the current azeroth version we are autohosting?

How is this map different from the one we are currently hosting?

Which is the better version in your opinion? Why?

[Hannibal]

Replacing the existing Azeroth Wars version abruptly might upset some of the conservative player base elements. Many people would like to see Genesis Autohosted in some manner. Maybe if it were possible to host them side by side and let the quality of the maps speak for themselves then after a few weeks determine which one was played more or more well received. I'm of the mindset though that if LR is discontinued and Genesis plans on continuing well into 2016 that the spot should be held by an active version. LR's last publicly released update was back in September, since then Genesis has released 6 versions. Each adding new (bug free) content and addressing balance issues and minor bugs that still can still be found.

http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... sed.19483/
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... sed.19602/
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... sed.19697/
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... sed.19768/
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... sed.19867/
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... sed.19957/

With Rhemar leaving that would explain the lack of updates in LR but in that time we managed to release all these putting the Genesis file considerably ahead of the competition. Our biggest problem with the map is simply that people haven't even seen it yet but many people including some old LR die-hards would love it see it on the ENT bot!

[StoPCampinGn00b]

I support this decision. Hannibal, you didn't link the more important threads.

http://www.diplomunion.com/index.php?th ... ost-587857
http://www.diplomunion.com/index.php?th ... ans.20067/

Basically, LR is coming to a formal and official closing and is partly merging into Genesis. The Azeroth Wars fanbase has been split for quite a long time now and by making Genesis the AW map, more activity should return to one map should the LR be removed. I would like to note however that it should be tested like Hannibal said as things may not go the way I foresee it.

[nabo.]

Spoiler!

Sorry to bother but I'm really not sure how to proceed here, and I'm sorry in advance for the wall of text! As per the discussion in https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=72385 Azeroth Wars is in a state of flux. The LR series is being discontinued due to consistent mapper turnover. There is a demand for Genesis but as mentioned switching it abruptly on ENT41 may trigger a bad initial reaction. However I would very much like to get the map more exposure. We have been well received by people who have actually played the map, but one of the problems is people just default to LR. As one of the makers (me and Sukramo) we have been able to make a highly developed version of Azeroth Wars but sadly has little exposure.

A Comparison of the two sections briefly shows that Genesis has had more long term development stability and that we plan on mapping it well into 2016. Looking forward to adding Legion content actually!!

http://diplomunion.com/index.php?forums/awlr/
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?forums/awg/

Genesis Companion Guide
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... sis.19887/
Genesis Version Timeline
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?thread ... ine.19516/


Another point that me and Sukramo have talked about is that buying/getting any old bot could potentially be pointless and look bad for the map if it sat idol with empty lobbies. ENT41 Azeroth Wars bot hosting is more established and I think it would be pointless to compete with it using any other random Azeroth Wars bot.

I think the best proposition would be (keep in mind im not exactly sure how bots work, just that they work ) would be similar to what was mentioned in the thread. If it was possible to make ENT42 Genesis Autohosting and players could play Genesis or LR and over time let the numbers speak for themselves? It could be a fun little competition to see that if people who were less biased had the choice and ended up liking Genesis more (Survival of the fittest so to say). The fact is we are developing the map at a steady pace and no Azeroth Wars map has had such a period of consistent mappers, were only getting better at it, and I would very much look forward towards building a good relationship with ENT!

Thank you for your time, sorry again for the wall of text!!
Hannibal

@hannibal Just post here plz. I am active on forum and will usually respond within a day. I tend to write myself a lot, so i do not mind long txt.

Few questions:
Ive known that there were two versions that were somewhat actively being developed. Our currently hosted version was carried over from previous map maker(s) and developed by @Rhemar afaik.

Few questions (i dont wanna read all those diplo threads):
1) If LR is being discontinued, did the LR staff merge with Genesis? Rhemar joined too?
2) Are you the mapmaker of Genesis? If not, who is it now? Are they on ent forum?
3) Why would people, not you, prefer Genesis over LR aside the fact that the map development will continue?
4) Does the current LR version have any problem(s)? Has the Genesis map been tested and is it stable/playable without known game breaking bugs?
5) Currently only 100 azeroth games are being autohosted hosted weekely (did not check priv hosts). Wouldnt it be better just to replace the map and see as a trial and see the response?

@art)y can you check the genesis and LR hosting counts on makemehost?

[Hannibal]

Thank you for your reply, prepare yourself for walls of text!

1) If LR is being discontinued, did the LR staff merge with Genesis? Rhemar joined too?

LR is presently being discontinued. Afaik Rhemar was the last one working on LR and after encountering the issue of persistent crashes is retiring to start a new project down the line. I think in the interim he is mostly focusing on his studies while the new project is still forming. I actually at one point brought some of the triggers I had refined in Genesis over to LR to help the map when Rhemar initially took over.

2) Are you the mapmaker of Genesis? If not, who is it now? Are they on ent forum?

Yes, I am one of the two mapmakers of Genesis, the other being Sukramo. I handle triggers, terrain, and am now working on the community building/management aspect (which is why I’m here). Sukramo works on balance and new content. I myself am generally not a ‘forum goer’ I have only about 320+ posts on Diplo despite working on the map for almost 2-3 years (on and off of course) and many of my posts are huge walls of text.

3) Why would people, not you, prefer Genesis over LR aside the fact that the map development will continue?

One of the fundamental differences in Genesis is that in the core game mode is that there are all even teams (we have a team of 3 mode and a 6v6 mode for competitive play). This was done by merging the High Elves with Dalaran to make Green the Dark Horde. This makes even 2v2 matches all around the map. Genesis also has a great deal more events for players to interact with not as much as Lordaeron the Aftermath for example but more than LR and Dark Ages of Warcraft (last time I checked Daow). On top of that Genesis is insanely polished -- tooltips, icon placement, and virtually no bugs despite the greater volume of content.

4) Does the current LR version have any problem(s)? Has the Genesis map been tested and is it stable/playable without known game breaking bugs

LR has very few problems afaik but I haven’t kept up with it as much as other haves. I know the LR community itself became divided with the introduction of Azeroth Wars Origins that reverts some of the changes Rhemar made while adding some polish to the map. The core file itself has no game breaking issues but there is a real divide that some people just don’t want to play LR and some don’t want to play Origins.

New content in Genesis is extensively tested before being released and the map is remarkably stable for its size and for the volume of content we have added. Much of my work on Genesis was refining the existing triggers that were left over in the open source file to make the map easier to edit over time (proper coding, use of arrays, commenting, etc). This was some of what I bought over to LR when it seemed that Genesis was infact going to be discontinued.
Linked for reference:
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?threads/hello.17393/
http://diplomunion.com/index.php?threads/updates.17616/

Genesis is stable and in a state I would consider the file quite read for autohost!

5) Currently only 100 azeroth games are being autohosted hosted weekely (did not check priv hosts). Wouldnt it be better just to replace the map and see as a trial and see the response?

As I mentioned in my other post and in the PM I think that switching it abruptly would upset people who maybe arn’t up to date in what's happening on Diplo and with the maps in general. There is also a conservative element of people who only want to play LR and almost refuse to try anything else outright (despite the greater volume of content and extreme polish). I’m not looking to ‘takeover’ but would like to see Genesis get a ‘fair chance’ which is why I suggested hosting them side by side so the players and numbers can speak for themselves. Or at the least so players have the option and they can wean themselves off LR. I myself worked on LR and in my thread on diplo have even shown the early stages of a ‘LR Mode’ that converts Green back to the High Elves and Teal as a solo race out of respect for LR and legacy it had.

I of course would be more than willing for a trial and to see the response but my guess would be the initial reaction would be a conservative backlash.

In terms of the MMH numbers the frequency of updating the map may actually hurt us there cause each version of course starts the counter over. The LR on MMH has been up there for a very long time but is probably hosted less frequently due to the ENT 41. It is only in hindsight that it would have been wise to record how many times each version of Genesis was hosted before uploading the new one.

Thanks again for your time, If you have any more questions feel free to ask! The walls of text were not as bad as I thought!

[nabo.]

@Hannibal arty is an admin on mmh, so we can check the records.

I appreciate your thorough and reasonable answers.

One last question: Why doesnt the genesis and origin project groups combine? Different ideas? After all, all of us want to preserve what we have on wc3.

[Hannibal]

That question is actually very complicated and I could only speculate. The maps have different histories and the goals and design philosophies of Genesis are more or less posted and open for discussion. I think Origins goals were more based on reverting some of Rhemars changes with some tooltip clean up, additional balancing, and terraining. Me and Talinn (Maker of Origins) had many discussions on Skype and oddly enough Talinn was actually very supportive of Genesis. For the most part the only thing that could be referenced for this would be the Skype chat logs and that's dubious at best.

Me and Sukramo have even in the past had the notion that too much was invested in Genesis to drop it and help another version, but it had crossed our mind. From whats posted or 'public knowledge,' the Origins file was built off of where Talinn had left LR and parted ways with Rhemar. Genesis was built from Eagleman's Open Source so the file has much less bloated data having been passed through fewer hands. There is a huge list of features we have added to Genesis that would take an extremely long time to add to another file.

Spoiler!

+Naval Straits & Mastery
+Unique Ports
+Flagships & Air Raids
-Special Forces
-New Islands, Carrying Winds(Links some Islands), and Goblin Lumber Mills
-Hero Equipment
-Event Notification System
-Capturable Capitals & Purgatory
-Hero Choices
-Game Modes (6v6, Teams of 3, FFA)
-Event, Upgrades & Help Buildings!

Shortly after releasing Origins Talinn has seemingly abandoned the project at least for the time being. I have encouraged him to try and at least give people an update with where hes at but again the only thing to reference would be our personal skype discussions and some announcements in the origins skype channel. So I dont know what else to say. The answer is some what 'political' in a azeroth wars nerd way.

Edit: I didn't even think to check my profile to find the initial autohost suggestion. I just remember that Talinn did make a brief post in favor of it. I did not see your reply till just now! I wasn't sure if getting people to post in the thread would have just been annoying. Most of the people I know or play Genesis I only interact with on Warcarft 3 or are on Diplo so having or trying to get said people to make accounts with very few posts I thought would seem shady. Like his 1 post count, 1 sentence thread lol!
https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 74#p274174

[nabo.]

The last question was for my own curiosity =p

To consider whether to autohost a map, it's either that we see potential in the map or see strong demand from public.

Thanks for your replies. Approved.

@uakf.b

Can you change ent77 with this map?

[Hannibal]

should be hosting on ENT77 now

[Hannibal]

To consider whether to autohost a map, it's either that we see potential in the map or see strong demand from public.

Thanks for your replies. Approved.

Can you change ent77 with this map?

should be hosting on ENT77 now

Thank you both! I will be posting the bot info in the map in the next update until then I will let people know. I was also curious as to how Updates should be notified? Do I just post it in the Autohost section?

[nabo.]

@Hannibal

Post any update on suggestion forum.