Racist Account Names

[EdgeOfChaos]

Regardless it may be warranted to you, a must-always-be-politically-correct type person (as an attorney, you kind of have to be, no offense to you) but I feel it will be more of an attack-back, vs. that really "offends" me

I'm not part of a minority group, and I don't really care about political correctness, but it seems silly to ban for racist comments in chat, and not racist comments in your name. It's really the same offense, which is extreme flaming/racism, but one way you get away with it, and one way you don't just based on HOW you deliver the message. I think, either remove the rule altogether and let people flame and harass as much as they wish, or expand the racism rule to any excessive racism, including names.

BTW: You can !ignore someone's chat. You can't !ignore their name coming up whenever they kill/die/get a rune. So if anything I think that banning for names is more important than banning for chat.

[DeadlyLink]

My only thought on this is this: you are dealing with a game, where the maturity of said users is sub-par, you can expect these kinds of things from some users.

Secondly, you would have to come up with every possible combination of derogatory word with every type of symbol that could get around it. It's not possible which is why Blizzard doesn't. It's not necessarily that they don't care, it's that it's impossible unless they made an approval process that every new user account had to be approved by them before it was allowed onto the server.

If accepted, this would have to be on a case by case basis and would be a huge headache of trying to monitor everyone's username that ever plays on ENT.

Hes got it exactly, there's no point in adding a ban like this because it would be too hard to catch every offender as well as the fact that this is an online game Rated T , Most teens under stand reality and the fact that no matter how far you go with this there will always be racism and its hard to change everyone's mind. Adding a ban on offensive account names is a form of discrimination in itself and you're denying them the right to free speech. If you want to bring racism into this you must consider what other elements you are disturbing sir. Adding a ban on racism is pointless and a waste of time because there is only true fact: There will always be racism, get used to it or stop playing the game.

If the person has done nothing wrong and you ban him simply for his name then the reason for the ban is nonsense and if he is banned because of his name then you might as well ban him for life. Also not everyone can adjust to changing names, what is they're in a clan? What if there is other games hosted by other clans that they want to keep their stats in? What if There is codes for other custom games that only work with their username? There is a lot of What Ifs which is why i cannot support a ban based on names.

[teller55]

Good point I forgot that as well. Not all games are like DotA where username doesn't matter. If you play custom games with save codes, they normally only work with that username.

[VirusHunter]

well you all know my opinion on this matter.
but as for what they said about other bot stats and so forth. well.. i mean you are right as far as we are all mostly teen and up and this game is rated T. however. there is things in this world that get accepted. even tho it is wrong. does not mean we have to accept it. you say that we shouldnt ban them unless they did something wrong. but making the name, even if you made it as a joke. could seriously offend someone. like i absolutely hate being called a greengo. too me that word is no different the sp.. or ni.... or any of them. so if someone had that in their name i would irritate the shit out of me every time i saw it. so why should i have to deal with your bigoted racism? ban the name, transfer stats if you want. and if you are in the clan or a clan. you can leave said clan and rejoin. if there is requirements to join then talk to your shaman or chieftain im sure they will work with you.
as far as i am concerned about save codes for other cg's. well you should have thought about that before making a name like "ihatenlggers" or any one of the pre-stated names. and if its REALLY that important to you to play that saved game. then go onto another bot because your racism isnt welcomed here.

[DeadlyLink]

If we start implementing bans as ridiculous as this we will lose players

[DeadlyLink]

BGN is like soviet russia alot of people are trying to leave it ENT is like USA/Canada people are coming here because of its higher quality , we cannot limit the right of others to play a video game simply because they made their account when they were 14 and picked a racist name. We all did bad things when we were younger in different degrees of course but everyone has done something

[VirusHunter]

BGN is like soviet russia alot of people are trying to leave it ENT is like USA/Canada people are coming here because of its higher quality , we cannot limit the right of others to play a video game simply because they made their account when they were 14 and picked a racist name. We all did bad things when we were younger in different degrees of course but everyone has done something

its not that we are not going to allow them to play because of a name they made when they were 14 or w/e. we are simply asking them to make a new name. they are going to be able to keep all the same stats just without the racism behind it.
edit:
and really. its not asking much. all we are saying is hey can you take the word n1gg3r our of your name. we got the joke haha. but its not really that funny..

[VirusHunter]

Yes I'm aware of that but there is a reason blizzard doesn't care about custom games. Being that I was a former hardcore ladder player with night elf I think I can vouch for this. Ladder games have tournaments and choose the best players in the world by blizzard standards who have earned themselves considerable skill and recognition, custom games are a very different ballpark. While clan ENT has tournaments and brackets, blizzard does not recognize any of that, only clan ENT and the players affiliated recognize it.

So when you map hack in a ladder game, Blizzard is on much higher security detail. If you ban someone for having a foul username there is a 90% chance they'll come back with that username after their ban wears off, hard to believe but true nonetheless. Banning someone for having a foul username when they don't flame anyone or break any rules of the clan is like beating someone up for breathing the same air as you. While I don't like his username and it does indeed disgust me a bit I don't let it affect me because I know that he's ignorant and there's no sense in feeding him. I have enough self control to realize that people like that have no sense of decency and I choose to leave it alone.

We had speculation on making foul usernames a rule a while back before you applied here, but we never chose to proceed with the idea.

sorry i didnt see this in the other discussion. let me just say this to that. i get what you are saying about blizz not caring about cg's. and how ladder is more important to them. this being true in the begining yeah. which is when they made the rules. but lets be honest. dota blew up way bigger than blizzard could ever have expected when they allowed people to create custom games. that being said they wouldnt care about a bunch of kids sharing maps or w/e. but dota and a few other games have really stood out on their own and it is up to us (since blizz hasnt cared about wc3 in the last 10 years) to make this as friendly and respectable as possible for all to enjoy. not let some troll behind a computer ruin it.
also as far as them coming back with the same name after their ban expires. well if thats the case then we ban him again. and longer. and etc etc.

[karasu.]

Just because he has an offensive, ignorant, or idiotic name doesn't mean that his name alone will ruin a game. This goes back to my concept of ignoring it and brushing it off. If somebody made a name for instance such as Ikillallwhitepeople, I would not care because I know that the person behind that name is ignorant and has nothing going for them in life if they had to insist on making a name like that and keep in mind I am white.

This is not a good idea, blunt and to the point.


People need to stop getting so offended because somebody is racist or makes an offensive name. This hypersensitive society we live in is sickening beyond belief. Like it or not we're not going to change the way people think, there are always going to be ignorant racist people and you have to either learn to suck it up or don't bother playing with them. Do you honestly believe that someone is going to change their screename because a community hosting games on a bot is going to ban them? No not in a million years. They will simply go somewhere else where other communities most likely do not care as long as they do not engage in any derogatory or racist type verbal altercations. What you're doing is noble but in the end we are going to lose players, there is a decent chance that we will be swamped with appeals and requests.

I've been beaten up by a black person because I was white and he even said to my face that I was a useless cracker and deserved what I got. Even now I still show respect to any black person or human being of a different skin color/nationally as long as they show me respect in return so I assure you I am not racist in any way, shape, or form.

You have to brush it off man, I know it offends people, I've been offended by racism myself but people are NOT GOING TO CHANGE, blunt and to the point of the matter. If you do not like their username then you do not have to play with them, you make the conscious choice to play with them. In the end they only ruin your game if you let them ruin it.

I am not for this idea, nor will I ever be. I respect you guys and your right to your opinions but at the same time I have to make my stance on the issue and let my true feelings and thoughts out.

[VirusHunter]

its not a matter of whether me personally am getting offended by it because it doesnt. or hasnt yet. but still our voters on the poll show that people are getting offended by it. and u know what as far these players going to another community. so be it. so what. you arnt gonna let a murderer in your town just because he could simply go to another town instead. you ostracize the ones with the violations. no one thinks you are racist for not supporting this. as you said we each have a right to our own opinions.
but think back to the olden times. go back as far as you like. throughout time people have been being taught respect in all form. remember we used to have to refer to people by title first like lord eddard stark or prince geoffery. and if you didnt refer to them by their proper titles. well.. they didnt have to worry about ban's or changing their names.
its not like this is something barbaric to ask for. is it hard to change your user name? no people do it all the time. hell i have tons of them lol.
is it wrong for a community to stand up and say no were not going to accept your vulgarities? absolutely not.
do we have to conform to what other communities are doing? i should hope not as i would like to think of ent as its own separate entity.
even if we dont pass this, i think this is a step in the right direction.

[EdgeOfChaos]

My only thought on this is this: you are dealing with a game, where the maturity of said users is sub-par, you can expect these kinds of things from some users.

Secondly, you would have to come up with every possible combination of derogatory word with every type of symbol that could get around it. It's not possible which is why Blizzard doesn't. It's not necessarily that they don't care, it's that it's impossible unless they made an approval process that every new user account had to be approved by them before it was allowed onto the server.

If accepted, this would have to be on a case by case basis and would be a huge headache of trying to monitor everyone's username that ever plays on ENT.

Hes got it exactly, there's no point in adding a ban like this because it would be too hard to catch every offender as well as the fact that this is an online game Rated T , Most teens under stand reality and the fact that no matter how far you go with this there will always be racism and its hard to change everyone's mind. Adding a ban on offensive account names is a form of discrimination in itself and you're denying them the right to free speech. If you want to bring racism into this you must consider what other elements you are disturbing sir. Adding a ban on racism is pointless and a waste of time because there is only true fact: There will always be racism, get used to it or stop playing the game.

If the person has done nothing wrong and you ban him simply for his name then the reason for the ban is nonsense and if he is banned because of his name then you might as well ban him for life. Also not everyone can adjust to changing names, what is they're in a clan? What if there is other games hosted by other clans that they want to keep their stats in? What if There is codes for other custom games that only work with their username? There is a lot of What Ifs which is why i cannot support a ban based on names.

With the argument, that it would be hard to catch every offender, we shouldn't have any rules at all. "Yes, intentional feeding is bad, but it would be pretty hard to catch every feeder, so let's not enforce it at all."

Of course we couldn't catch ever offender, but catching 50% of offenders would be a lot better than letting 100% of offenders play like they are right now.

Banning based on usernames would be a form of discrimination, but not every form of discrimination is bad. ENT discriminates against game ruiners by not allowing them into the games. This is good. So let's also discriminate against racist usernames by making them change their name.

They will always be racist yes, but with this ban they would no longer be allowed to bring their racism into the game and share it with others. This argument is like saying "There's no point in banning game ruiners, because they will always be game ruiners anyways, you can't change them by a ban."

You say "If the person has done nothing wrong and you ban him simply for his name then the reason for the ban is nonsense", but if the ENT mods ban someone for his name, then he HAS done something wrong. I fail to see how only banning someone's username and transferring his stats is as bad as banning him for life. It's easy to change names. Create a new account, go into the clan channel, tell one of the shamans, get invited. Any respectable clan will let you do this.

BGN is like soviet russia alot of people are trying to leave it ENT is like USA/Canada people are coming here because of its higher quality , we cannot limit the right of others to play a video game simply because they made their account when they were 14 and picked a racist name. We all did bad things when we were younger in different degrees of course but everyone has done something

They have the "right" to be racist, just like ENT admins have the "right" to tell them they they are no longer allowed to play on this server. And we are NOT telling them they can't play anymore, only that they have to change their name.

[karasu.]

Look I'm gonna be brutally honest, I would vehemently refuse to process any ban request related to that.

[teller55]

The only thing to me is this: The difference from preventing people from excessive racism and preventing racist names is that racism in chat is easy to ignore/ban for, racism in name forces a player to change everything about their account.

Say teller55 somehow offended someone. I would have to change:
- My username
- The countless number of friends that have me on their friends list would have to change it
- I'm admin as teller55 on about 10 different bots and would have to find an active root admin to remove my old account and add my new one
- I would have to readd all my friends from my friends list
- All of my stats on my Swat account would be useless and the fact that I am ranked 4th in the game would be gone. (It isn't possible to transfer "stats" on RCPD because it has to do with hero codes submitted, and each hero code is unique to a user's checksum value.)
- All of the different forums that I have this username on I would have to change to keep them consistent with my wc3 username. (Not necessary on ALL forums, but I like keeping things consistent.)
- I have a forum with my username in the url.
- Anything else I'm missing
- etc.

It's a massive change you are forcing upon users vs. !mute, !ignore, !ban for a couple days due to excessive racism. Like has been stated in the past, you may have created the account 10 years ago when you were 12 years old and immature, now you don't agree with the old statement, but you have to change far too many things to change it so you just leave it alone.

Now, if you have a racist name and then you make 1-2 racist comments in game, it could construe it to be "excessive racism" because they have a racist name and they made racist comments vs. if they had a non-racist name, they would have to be more racist than 1-2 comments to be considered "excessive", so you do have a way to punish people with the games if they actually intend to be racist.

[Palsgraf]

First, let me just say that I am proud that we are having such an active discussion on this matter. Regardless of the outcome, discussions like these are what make a community last.

Second, and this goes without saying but I'll say it anyway, no one here thinks that anyone against this is bigoted themselves. We are all intelligent, respectful people and are eager to hear both sides of the argument. Do not hold back.

The only thing to me is this: The difference from preventing people from excessive racism and preventing racist names is that racism in chat is easy to ignore/ban for, racism in name forces a player to change everything about their account.

This is a classic parade of horribles. It is a fallacy when it is unlikely to occur. How many admins or mods do you know with names like "meinkampf"? Would ENT even accept a staff application from someone with such a patently bigoted name? (I hope not).

Say teller55 somehow offended someone.

This is missing the point. The rule is not "ban any name that somehow offends someone." The rule is ban patently bigoted names. That is, names that are, on their face, clearly bigoted. No explanation needed. If your name were "ballsvaginacock," someone might be offended (despite the hilarity of the name), but it is clearly not bigoted. Offense and bigotry are too different things. And patent bigotry and latent bigotry are also different. Latent bigotry would require context for it to be construed as bigoted.

Patent bigotry is clear on its face--without additional context--that it is bigoted. Only patent bigotry would be banned.

Finally,

Now, if you have a racist name and then you make 1-2 racist comments in game, it could construe it to be "excessive racism" because they have a racist name and they made racist comments vs. if they had a non-racist name, they would have to be more racist than 1-2 comments to be considered "excessive", so you do have a way to punish people with the games if they actually intend to be racist.

That is a fair point. If this ban is ultimately rejected by the community, I would hope that we at least institute something like this.

[supersexyy]

A name should not be bannable.
Blatant trolling and flaming is.