Change Rules regarding Livestreaming

[CreativeLP]

Related to this topic, I want to suggest to change the rules regarding Ghosting+Sniping.

https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... _p#p310999

Change

General Rules:

Do not ghost by leaking information to your enemies/opponents.

to

Do not ghost by leaking information to your enemies/opponents.*
*Exception: Livestreams that are meant to advertise and entertain the community

and Add

Sniping a livestream to gain advantage

Why do we want to change this?

On the current rules, livestreaming content is a bannable offense. This makes no sense at all regarding the importance of live entertainment.
Warcraft III is not the newest game and the hype may still be alive but the player count won't rise significantly higher without advertising. Streaming live-content to webpages like twitch.tv helps bringing a steady number of new players to the game which are needed to feed the playerbase. Otherwise more people stop playing the game than new people joining, which causes the game and the ent-community to crumble.

We as the people that stream live-content want to help keeping this community alive. This often is the only way for other people to get interested. We don't want to harm anyone by exposing our game.
So please consider this as it is an important part of the community.

[sunkanzomg]

Pretty good choice to discourage streaming, it doesn't help the community at all ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) blyat

[Jabba41]

Why is it so important to stream it in real time and not delay it about 25 minutes ? With that delay most stuff you see is useless ingame.

As you see in the topic you refeer to, looking at these streams to gain advantage is already covered by the rules.

[CreativeLP]

Why is it so important to stream it in real time and not delay it about 25 minutes ? With that delay most stuff you see is useless ingame.

As you see in the topic you refeer to, looking at these streams to gain advantage is already covered by the rules.

Because the entertainment factor and the streamer-user interaction can not be ensured this way.
Imagine you ask the streamer a question about something happening in the game, the streamer would be able to answer 25 minutes later.

Let me ask you something else: Imagine there is a soccer match going on, would you like to see it live at a big screen or with you like to see it with a 25 minutes delay? This is probably not the best example in the world but it should give you an idea of how this sort of entertainment works.

I have the feeling the most people from ent staff that are commenting on this thread or on earlier topics are not sufficient informed on what live-content is providing and how it is changing the promotion of games.

[AmnoN]

I am not sure that 25 minutes is a necessary length of delay, but I agree that the streams should be delayed. That being said, I do believe that if you are coincidentally watching someone's stream, you should not discuss what you are seeing in great detail.

I propose the following:
"Do not ghost by leaking information to your enemies/opponents. In the case of streamers, they must ensure that they delay their stream by a sufficient length of time as to not allow a viewer to gain any significant advantage through viewing."
-"Sufficient length of time" could vary depending on the game - LTD, for example, could be 20 minutes or so because of Arena rounds where all is revealed anyways. It would be shorter for DOTA most likely as it is a faster paced game, etc.

"Do not intentionally seek out streamers with the intention of gaining an advantage by watching their stream. If you are in fact in a game with a streamer and are viewing said stream, do not share the information with your team beyond what can be seen in-game"
-Simply put, do not share any information that could only have been seen with a maphack as opposed to standard gameplay - for example, in LTD, if you see a King leak, you can see attack and HP upgrades so that is fair to share. If no King leak, do not share, "send X because they went King".

@creativeLP And Creative, let's not exaggerate streaming with regards to this community. The community is pretty small with "higher profile" streamers getting between 20 and 30 viewers at any given time (not the "highest profile", but more popular - I have a friend who is one of these streamers). Banning live-streaming during custom ENT games likely will have little to no effect on the actual community since this game is so old and frankly, dying - other games such as Super Smash Bros are a different story where it has clearly been a part of revitalizing it.

@creativelp @jabba41 Thoughts on my adjustments?

[razerfreak2]

Why is it so important to stream it in real time and not delay it about 25 minutes ? With that delay most stuff you see is useless ingame.

As you see in the topic you refeer to, looking at these streams to gain advantage is already covered by the rules.

Chat interaction is a big part of streaming. Beeing able to directly communicate with your viewers answer their questions and such just makes the game even more interesting and helps the community grow. Especially a game like that needs some explanation to really get behind it and thats where the communication between Broadcaster and Viewer really comes into play.

[sunkanzomg]

these "streams" have a steady viewership of 100 viewers, and people regularly ask questions about why "we" build/push as we do, basically teaching the ´´different yolo's´´, will be hard awnsering these questions, when you get these questions 25 minutes later into the game..

Keeps comming new and old players to the streams that wants to learn more about the game, both new players and mega players that want to get ready for the 1200+ games..

[sunkanzomg]

"let's not exaggerate streaming with regards to this community. The community is pretty small with "higher profile" streamers getting between 20 and 30 viewers at any given time"

Where did you find these numbers?

[BragusiD]

I watch a stream because i enjoy to see them how they(the streamers) play a game right now :Legion TD. Second of all I also enjoy talking to them to interact with the streamer . If someone will put a big delay on the stream than simply as @jabba41 told us earlier we could watch a youtube video and be done with . Third of all broud3r and pyro made me come again to legion td even tough i might not play so much i still play it . On the ghosting part what I can say is simple : is common sense to not ghost and to not take unfair advantages upon your enemy and if u do so than is your fault not the streamers fault and you should be banned . On the other side you simply told that this is a dying game , if you put a big delay that will make the community even smaller so what you will do by this is not helping at all on the grow of the community but on the destruction of it. This are my tough of this matter at this moment. Ps ( excuse my bad english)

[CreativeLP]

I am not sure that 25 minutes is a necessary length of delay, but I agree that the streams should be delayed. That being said, I do believe that if you are coincidentally watching someone's stream, you should not discuss what you are seeing in great detail.

I propose the following:
"Do not ghost by leaking information to your enemies/opponents. In the case of streamers, they must ensure that they delay their stream by a sufficient length of time as to not allow a viewer to gain any significant advantage through viewing."
-"Sufficient length of time" could vary depending on the game - LTD, for example, could be 20 minutes or so because of Arena rounds where all is revealed anyways. It would be shorter for DOTA most likely as it is a faster paced game, etc.

"Do not intentionally seek out streamers with the intention of gaining an advantage by watching their stream. If you are in fact in a game with a streamer and are viewing said stream, do not share the information with your team beyond what can be seen in-game"
-Simply put, do not share any information that could only have been seen with a maphack as opposed to standard gameplay - for example, in LTD, if you see a King leak, you can see attack and HP upgrades so that is fair to share. If no King leak, do not share, "send X because they went King".

@creativeLP And Creative, let's not exaggerate streaming with regards to this community. The community is pretty small with "higher profile" streamers getting between 20 and 30 viewers at any given time (not the "highest profile", but more popular - I have a friend who is one of these streamers). Banning live-streaming during custom ENT games likely will have little to no effect on the actual community since this game is so old and frankly, dying - other games such as Super Smash Bros are a different story where it has clearly been a part of revitalizing it.

@creativelp @jabba41 Thoughts on my adjustments?

Regarding the viewer counts, I would split them into 3 classes.

pyro_p peaking at around 100-150 viewers at the weekend for example. Hitting 100 concurrent viewers on almost every stream.
http://www.twinge.tv/pyro_p/streams/#/18825336576

broud3r Lforward(me) Akitos peaking at around 60-80 usually.
http://www.twinge.tv/broud3r/streams/#/18833221856
http://www.twinge.tv/lforward/streams/#/18623248736
http://www.twinge.tv/lol_akitos/streams/#/17851083440

And countless small streamers that stream ent content on regular base + "big streamers" that play some games from time to time.

So it might have a bigger impact than you expected.

[supersexyy]

No game has rules around streaming fyi. Shouldn't be any different in war3 other than for an in-house league.

[CreativeLP]

No game has rules around streaming fyi. Shouldn't be any different in war3 other than for an in-house league.

Then click the link on my first post please.
Hazard warned pyro that he would get a ban every time someone would report pyro for ghosting as it is leaking information to the enemy team. Same goes for if pyro reports as a stream sniper as he is offending the rules aswell there.

[supersexyy]

I did, streaming isn't 'ghosting'. The phrase 'ghosting' has been misconstrued in that situation.

Streaming without delay shouldn't be bannable imo.

[broud3r]

i started to stream around 3 month ago and reached over 50 avg viewers.
within this time i had alot of viewers who never played legion td/wc3 at all and some who stoped playing it years ago and movitated them to start playing on the ent bots again.
many of them already play with success on the legion td bots and some found the motivation to start other wc3 maps like dota again.
we support and the wc3 and ent community to stay alive and increase its playerbase thats why the quote:

In the future, any valid report made against you (for streaming/ghosting) and/or the players who took advantage of your stream will result in a ban for both party.

really disappointed me.
why should someone who support the community get punished cause someone else abuse it to gain an advantage?
sure if you stream its your own risk of getting sniped but on a small community like the playerbase on the 1200+ bot it should be natural if someone who get caught to take the advantage of the stream gets a ban.
the players have the choice of sniping the stream or closing it like using maphacks.
if they use a maphack its beyond debate to ban them but why not for sniping with proof?

to the point to delay the stream: as already mentioned the contact to the viewers is important to answer questions or just talking. in my opinion that's what streaming made so popular. for a game like legion td we would need around 30 minutes delay to avoid any abuse since on slow games this can be the time to reach the next arena where the enemies can scout the units. interacting with viewers would be impossible and makes the whole stream redundant since they could watch replays on youtube or download then somewhere.

[pyro_p]

I wont say anything since I got a "Warning" for streaming and helping out ENT community.