ELO rankings

[eldryan]

Part A: The scramble teams, give both 15/15 is a broken method. Scrambling and giving them proper ELO that they would win based off matchmaking is a better system. Being 1500 elo means nothing if it's just +15 ELO won every game with same teams as 500 ELO player. Thus, in order for scramble teams to be successful, calculating ELO +- based off team ELOs is better for this system.

Part B: 2v2 is a very different game than 3v3/4v4. 1v1 is more similar to 2v2. If LIHL had two ELO ladders, one for 1v1/2v2 another for 3v3/4v4 (ent27/ent28) it would better reflect players rankings, as many players from 2v2 suck at 4v4 and vice versa.

Part C: 1v1 is now an established part of LTD, yet LIHL has no 1v1 bot. Including 1v1 would be more acceptable, if it was on a ladder shared only with 2v2, and allow for a proper rankings.

[Krayyzie]

Definately dont agree to first part. If you play this system with the suggestion above, there will be alot of 28-2 and 29-1 games lateseason, and skill is a big part of LTD, skill decides who wins most games in the long run, but when it comes down to game by game, its still very luck based. And It´d be pretty stupid to have 29-1 games in a luck based game were there obviously is Huge differences beetween players knowledge and skill in the game, but pretty much All players still end up with 45-55% winrate.
I was positive to testing this random teams 15-15 elo out, and so far I think its been working out just fine. Its not always the same teams. Alot more different games, and trust it or not, but in many cases the teams that "should" be beaten easy by other team, has ended up winning games.
Voted a big No on first part.

Part 2 I was insecure with, but still went no

Part 3 only interesting to me if part 2 was implented

[eldryan]

Definately dont agree to first part. If you play this system with the suggestion above, there will be alot of 28-2 and 29-1 games lateseason, and skill is a big part of LTD, skill decides who wins most games in the long run, but when it comes down to game by game, its still very luck based. And It´d be pretty stupid to have 29-1 games in a luck based game were there obviously is Huge differences beetween players knowledge and skill in the game, but pretty much All players still end up with 45-55% winrate.
I was positive to testing this random teams 15-15 elo out, and so far I think its been working out just fine. Its not always the same teams. Alot more different games, and trust it or not, but in many cases the teams that "should" be beaten easy by other team, has ended up winning games.
Voted a big No on first part.

Part 2 I was insecure with, but still went no

Part 3 only interesting to me if part 2 was implented

Part 2/3 are obviously connected, can't do part 3 without part 2 very well.

For part 1, yes there will be 28-2 games. There will be teams that are all the top players all the bot players, that are 28/2. If you lose at a 50% rate in that game, or give ELO based off the result that you should be equal teams, then calling these the"top players" is a misnomer. you might think "58% is a great w/l, it's in this competitive league" but WITH BALANCE it's 58%. Without, 70% is more reasonable with standard shuffle, and stack like this... well, I don't feel anyone would consider it "15/15" in an accurate way.

[Tom_hardy]

I have to say i really like the way the games are setup now, and 15/15 is fine i think. Lets just test it at least this season, in the end we will see how much difference it made

[KinG23]

The system is not in "full effect" yet since the season is still new and most games end up close to 15/15 anyways. As time goes on in the season and some games become heavily stacked I'm sure people will be asking for !sp or votebalance (as was the case a few games already so far when teams were stacked hard).

[godlik3]

2v2 should be 15/15 elo always
all captain modes should be 15/15 elo also
rest elo should be automatic cauculated

[eldryan]

2v2 should be 15/15 elo always
all captain modes should be 15/15 elo also
rest elo should be automatic cauculated

you only say 2v2 should be 15/15 because it's far more difficult to gain ELO in 2v2 than in 4v4, because of ELO differentials. However, considering 2v2/1v1 as a different ladder makes this entire point empty....

captain mode - why should players on a team be punished because captain picks badly, and lose 15 elo instead of 5? regardless of this point, not really relevant..

[supersexyy]

I don't mind captain mode being 15/15. It means captains should pick the best players and not 'the best players relative to their elo'.

[eldryan]

I don't mind captain mode being 15/15. It means captains should pick the best players and not 'the best players relative to their elo'.

yes, it's not bad, but not really relevant to the suggestion. also annoying if captain mode is something like "top5player vs newvouch" etc. great if top5 player picks you, not as good if others do. captain mode is annoying when players just choose low elo for big +-, but also annoying to see games "auto 15/15 regardless of teams"... maybe better in captain mode if not captains don't get same +- as captains, since captain being bad can just mean loss (eg. the DIHL system).

[SLSGuennter]

I kinda like the new system, but i totaly agree. that 2v2 should have an own ladder, so we see brave winning some seasons

[Akitos]

Tbh, 2vs2 and 4vs4 being the same ladder has always been a big reason of me avoiding lihl games. I always thought it was stupid to have both share the same elo, because they're played waaaaay different. As Eld put it, players who're good at 2s might be horrible at 4s or the other way around.

[eldryan]

right now it looks like: Part A: NO; Part B: YES; Part C: NO.
Personally remarking, Part A is the most urgent of the 3 suggestions, as this current system eliminates the point of ELO if all games 15/15 and ELO just shows w/l.

There's no actual matchmaking going on, and no difference if you get high or low ELO in winning, which will result in a player JUST above average having a 2000 ELO with enough activity (and avoiding TK players). I guess that's actually always the case, but before at least you were always paired with the TK players meaning being above avg was more an uphill walk. I do approve of the shuffling, in that aspect. 15/15, while funny, is not a great ranking system.... Although I'm sure we've all noticed the ease of gaining ELO if you are above average this season so far.

[Jamo]

No idea if my opinion counts anyways, as a new trial and somehow I cannot vote.

I think that 2v2/1v1 is compeltely different game too, and a separate ranking woul dmake total sense to me.

the 15/15 I like so far, because I think it avoids several problems. Although, you can just go to highest w/l ratio (besides losing elo for dc...). But in lihl everybody should have good skill anyhow so it seems fair to no matter what the current elo is, to make games 15/15.

just my 2 cents

[KinG23]

No idea if my opinion counts anyways, as a new trial and somehow I cannot vote.

I think that 2v2/1v1 is compeltely different game too, and a separate ranking woul dmake total sense to me.

the 15/15 I like so far, because I think it avoids several problems. Although, you can just go to highest w/l ratio (besides losing elo for dc...). But in lihl everybody should have good skill anyhow so it seems fair to no matter what the current elo is, to make games 15/15.

just my 2 cents

Of course your opinion counts! And PM the LIHL moderation team to add you the the LIHL group, as the mod that vouched you forgot that step. Once added, you may vote and such.

[Jamo]

Ok, looks like I am in this group now, I could vote!

One more thing, or better a question, since it's my first season: Teams are balanced automatically anyhow, or not? So, aren't in the end even without 15/15 rule, most games like this? Or maybe like 12/18 or something?

I really would give the current system a try. You can only know if it works if you try it. So, anyways, I don't see much sense discussing about this 9 days after season started...