most imba apem hero?

[thomas.kacz]

thoughts?

[EdgeOfChaos]

Phantom Lancer.

[turtleshell]

I cant say wats most imba. But i can say that nukes and burst damages are great early. U lvl up fast in em, so magic dmgs will hurt. If u r able to get kills early, u should gain level and gold advantage. If u have these advantage usually ull be able to push towers n farm better->makes u buff->imba. Puck tiny invoker ursa bat etcetc but...any hero is imba in the hands of a pro (not saying im one).

[thomas.kacz]

Here's the thing.
the difference between ap and apem is that in EM mode
1) more gold per time
2) experience is gained quicker
3) towers are weaker

The hero that abuses these three the best is Geomancer.
Geo as a carry needs gold and benefits the most from having an early level 6.

The reason why I put Geo above all is because at level 6, geo is playing apemem while everyone is playing apem.
think about it. In apem everyone benefits from getting more experience. When geo has two heroes, each geo capable of recieving experience separately, that means he is doubling the benefit of the apem.
at lvl 11 he is playing apememem. at 16 apemememem. with scepter hes playing apememememem.

bascially its like everyone is playing AP mode while geo plays apem when he gets his clone. He is the sole hero that abuses the apem mode to the fullest.

hence mittlebittle winning 60 a-bal games. and losing only 2 (where one of them was where someone banned geo). Props to him but imba none the less.

[turtleshell]

True tat meepo is a great hero...if u have bot n dagger early its usually gg. He does have his counters though( es ftw). There r many great nuke heroes for short phase n great aoe ult combo heros for late game. N there are also many great junglers heros who can gank, tower push, n pwn as great(great exps if u good stacker n laner will get solo exp). Meepo does have low basic dmg so he tad harder to last hit with in my opinion. Until u got ur sceptor or meka, ur ulti meeps arent as tanky, so u can be vulnerable.

Meepo does get share of exp from all his meeps, but he benefits tat both in em and non. But u sharin exp with other heros. If u have 4 meeps n 4 heroes in kill range, u will get 50% of the exp n others will get like 12.5%each instaed of 20%.

In the end, even if its apem n someone is meepo, i think its more about timing, positioning, teamwork. When to push, when to pull, when to group, when to farm, who tanks, what items, wards, creep push flow, ganks, etc...dota is team game:)

But ya....meepo great em hero, not as easy to play if ppl pick knowing u gonna meep though. Outsmartin makes u great player on either end.

Ban meepo? He pick then repick? Lol

[thomas.kacz]

Ban meepo? He pick then repick? Lol

when i played against mittlebittle, i was going to do the same or ask for a dual lane mid with a lich maxing dark pact. but it was a-bal so no one wants to dual mid, and i ended up not having fast enough fingers to pick meepo before he did.
he proceeded to steam roll my team after he got lvl 6 and BoT. three times. I don't know if there is anyone that can beat him in an abal apem. (sure in a normal apem you can have aoe combos with several organized players)
Meepo just peaks way too quickly in apem and with the games i played against mittlebittle, he ends the game in around 20 minutes... which is usually the time frame where traditional hard carrys like pl void start to blossom.

[Spectre]

Any heavy nuker

[VirusHunter]

xin

[thomas.kacz]

Any heavy nuker

i picked lina and was outleveling, outcsing him. but once he hit 6, his farm accelerated far too high. after he hit 6, it was over in about 10 minutes.
I mean I know what traditionally counters geo. A heavy single target nuke to burst down one clone or a team of aoe. But the biggest problem geo faces in a normal AP game is how he can survive until lvl 6. you can really damage geo's game by massively slowing his climb to lvl 6. in apem, that time frame is far too short to do substantial economic damage.
every detail of apem works in geo's favour.
just look at one of mittlebittle games and than tell me really what could counter him.

[turtleshell]

Not sure where this discussion is going. I can agree that meepo is a great carry tank hero in apem. If its a legitimate teams vs team or ih, not sure whether it''ll shine as easily as in pubs. Winning a lane fight and winning the game is different.

I get tat mittlebittle is a great player but he can lose and he will lose just like any other player. Pub is pub... There is no "most" or "best" or "#1". If there was such hero, every professional dota league tournament team will have tat hero if possible. Dota is a 5persons game. Ofc u can carry like mad or have great supports. But the fun part is tat there r many varieties, play choices, strategies, chemistry...and when great shit happens...we call tat a "beautiful" amazing play. Nothin is certain just possibilities n probabilities hehe

U may have lost a game with lina against meep, other may also or may not. Too many variables.

[turtleshell]

Void...is a bad ass. Void sceptor vs meepo sceptor? Void pwns? longer chronosphere->more hits->more chance to timelock while in chrono... Timelocks during chrono procs twice the damage...+buriza? imba(i dont think this change from changelog 6.75 has been changed). +If u chrono on top of lesh's ult or....If u initiate...n lich ults...or crix or enig or es...or other aoe dagger in after chrono?!?!?!? teamplay ftw.

[VirusHunter]

if you pick a hero that is left click heavy there is counters to it. if you pick a hero that is right click heavy, there are counters too it. in my opinion. it is best to get the best balance of heros. u want heros who dont rely on magic or physical damage only. ofc there is exceptions to this as there is to most things. like say you have void. heavily relyant on physical attacks. so if you ethral you can avoid getting hit while in chrono. 1600 bucks to stop void from messing up your day. worth it to me. and magic is bkb linkens etc etc. my point is every hero has a weakness that can be exposed its just a matter of how to do it. i find that ethral blade is a good counter to most right click heros. then you got ones like troll, sb, husk etc ones u dont want to ethral just because of the severe downfall during that 4 seconds of no physical attacks. so in those cases i would cyclone + blink. im against going invis just because its too easy to counter. u spend 3 grand to go invis they spend 200 bucks to cancel that.. but u r right. any hero in the right hands could be imba. and it IS a team game so just because you think you picked a counter to a specific hero doesnt mean the rest of them will let you. its all about teamwork. w/o that there is no chance.

[thomas.kacz]

its all about teamwork. w/o that there is no chance.

so basically, mittlebittle can join a-bal (where teamwork is not present) and win uncontested 15 elo every game.
which basically means he will be #1 ranked player if he chooses to continue to play on that account. hes already 1800 elo with 60 wins. which means in another 60 he will be 2600.


i mean seriously, if anyone else looking at this thread doesnt see the big deal in this, try going 60 straight wins in a-bal with any hero but meepo.
I'll even accept 30 straight wins. I guarantee that no one can do it. cause like you said, when i pick a hard carry, i rely on my team to not go 0-12 in the first 10 minutes and for them to hold them off until at least the 15 minute mark.
no hero should be able to single handily carry the team in such an early time frame.

[turtleshell]

Abal if u can get straight wins, ofc its great. He deserves his wins. After 2200elo elo calculation k factor or somethin changes...u dont get the same elo gain others gain. So no...he wont b 2600. He can b top 10 with only playin meepo abal sure y not :p

[VirusHunter]

we cant say he doesnt deserve top spot if he reaches it simply because hes playing the modes. tons of players with high elo only play ap just because they dont know more than 2 heros (exaggeration of course lol.. in some cases) none the less. the result is the same. whats to say people who stack games and play 2000 games to reach high elo. it doesnt matter how u get it as long as you are breaking no rules. then by all means. have at it.