Risk rules

[Sappy-Chan]

Hello,
I just found out that preteaming is now allowed in risk by ent gaming. I am not sure why you allowed it (perhaps because you are bored of reviewing players complaints?) and I find it absolutely stupid. Preteaming is the cancer of risk. It's a bit like allowing maphacks : it is not fair and it is not how the game is supposed to be played. FFA is FFa, you can't allow players to make teams before the game starts. How could you even rank those games when players are fighting alone while other ones are allied? Once again, I find it really retarded (sorry for being coarse but that's my feeling).

If you are just too bored to review ban requests I could even do it for you. I am now an experimented risk player and I know that game very well.

Anyway, please, let me know why you thought it would be a good idea when you decided to allow preteaming...

Sappy-Chan aka Sapeur-Goblin@Europe (Clan VoR)

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Hey Sapeur, nice to see you here ^^

AFAIK, "no preteaming" was never written as a rule in ENT. It's just that it was clarified a few months ago. Now that it's ranked, thanks to riskdevolution.com of course, I guess that I'm indifferent about preteaming as opposed to me feeling that it's totally fine when it was unranked.

I however completely disagree with your reasons against preteaming besides it being ranked. There is minimal difference from teaming from before the lobby, in the lobby, or in game. Hell, even I know some VoR members that I hung out with preteam. Preteaming is very often used as an excuse for losing when in fact the loser was the inferior player. Many, and it's not unlikely for it to be even most times, the accuser is wrong. There are so many times where someone will accuse someone for preteaming without proof.

The mode may be FFA, but in 99%+ of games, people will team up. Sure, preteamers on average team till the last minute more than those who pair up ingame, but that is hardly is something to blame for losses when there are going many other players to "diplomatize" with and take down who you don't want in the game.

-SCN, user

[Sappy-Chan]

Hi,
Preteaming is allowed by ent rules : http://wiki.entgaming.net/index.php?tit ... ng:RDRules. Threads were closed by admins saying that preteaming is now allowed and they won't ban preteamers. I couldn't believe it when I saw it... So retarded.

And I think you're wrong : there is a huge difference between teaming and preteaming. Ofc, in any game of risk there will always be teamers. When someone is on the verge of winning you just stop him 2v1 or 3v1 or even 4v1. There is no problem in doing that. Even when its not justified, teaming is okay. But preteaming is really different. You are allied from the start and the diplomacy won't change your alliance. While teamers play to win, preteamers play for their team to win. It gives absolutely 0 chance to players who don't preteam.

" Preteaming is very often used as an excuse for losing when in fact the loser was the inferior player. Many, and it's not unlikely for it to be even most times, the accuser is wrong. There are so many times where someone will accuse someone for preteaming without proof."
Ofc, ragers/inexperienced players will often accuse teamers to be preteamers. But from an objective point of view you can clearly discern those who just team to stop someone/because of the diplomacy/or by coincidence and those who are allied vs the others. There are about 10 well known preteamers often playing on entgaming. Theyve several accounts and will never get banned. Its easy to prove they're premats since they always play their games together.

And once again, there is a huge difference between teamers and preteamers. Sometimes I team because it gives me more chance to win. But if I was preteaming I would get a much better winrate.

[Sappy-Chan]

Hey admins and mods? Any answer?

[aRt)Y]

If you want this to be considered, you will need more players to comment here. Then, we will review it.

[Memphis26]

i Agree with what Sappy wrote. Allowing preteaming in Risk is like allowing IS to bomb and kill whoever or whatever city they want.
There is a big diffrence in teaming and PREteaming. Risk with preteamers is playing a game of legion vs a team who got maphack, even harder. Imagine a normal ladder game, (the normal wc3 game) imagine a game of FFA, 12 players, and 2 or 3 of them are preteaming, do you understand what kind of advantage that gives them? it simply ruins the game, especially now when devo has a ranked league.

Anyway the risk community might be at its lowest, but do not punish the public risk players by allowing preteamers. people will quit this game faster with preteamers.

[alf321]

I couldn t agree more with Sappy and Memphis, preteaming is just not fair for other players.
Furthermore Risk devolution is an ffa game and not supposed to be a pre-arranged-team game.

But on other side I understand ENT gaming staff's point of view, it needs a lot of time to watch the report until you get the proof that players preteam.
Btw our reports ussually lack of details, and you can be "annoyed" by our reports. You do this on your free time.

So why don't you delegate this task to people involved in risk community like Memphis ?

[TimBa.Klason]

"And once again, there is a huge difference between teamers and preteamers. Sometimes I team because it gives me more chance to win. But if I was preteaming I would get a much better winrate." - Sappy
So you tell me...that you have problems winning against noobs? What does that make you? :*

To be real:
Pre-Teaming happens, sometimes it is ragers and losers who think they stand a better chance having a friend in the game, sometimes it is friends who are just looking for a good time. Some are good at the game, some are not. I doubt that we will ever be able to ban all the PTs, atleast not with how Wc3 is built up today.

There is always the constant chattering about the definition of "Pre-Teaming", "How much is Pre-Teaming?"
Alot of players say that just the though of you knowingly joining a game with a friend is Pre-Teaming. I don't agree with that, cause back in the days alot of Clan members played FFA Risk regulary and alot of them are often friends. This never ment that they were going to PT, alot of them took it the other way and made eachothers their nemesises of that game, for fun. Others simply said "lets just peace eachothers do our seperate fights and do a 1v1 in the end". Here someone will step in and say, "Yes, but the will tell eachothers their colours!" Not necessarily, alot of friends will recognize the others Fight pattern, Movement pattern, Unit pattern, Writing pattern and Behavior pattern and they will know almost instantly what colours eachothers are. Again someone steps in and says, "But they might be on Skype together??" Possibly, but how would you know? Wc3 is not connected to either skype or any other chatting service that exsist on the internet. As I just said, I don't agree with that "Knowingly going into a game with someone you know makes you a Pre-Teamer." And as I just said "Others simply say 'lets just peace eachothers do our seperate fights and do a 1v1 in the end' "

My Definition of Pre-Teaming is just what it sounds like:
"Knowingly going into a game with a friend to team other players."

That definition is what I stand behind, people need to define their view of Pre-Teaming.
This is so the Mods know what they are gonna look for, and possibly Ban.

Now, I don't mind Pre Teamers. They can try all they want, but they can not hide from my men...
I published this because of how much I know people hate Pre-Teamers, and it is to make my little
Sappy-Chan happy, cause this costed me alot of precious movie time to write....


//TimBa - VoR

[131n[LcR]]

HI, as a risk gamer for more than 10 years I can say without a doubt that Sap, Memphis and everybody else are unequivocally correct in what they say about the pre-teaming. They really do say it all, so I can only really talk about what you should be doing about it. I have to say your stance is VERY VERY wrong on the matter. It should be deterred and punished and I really must say that I'm disappointed in ENT Gaming for not listening to the people who know the game best and who have been involved in the clan play and the development of risk for many years. Please change your policy!!!

[131n[LcR]]

Though I will say, I have great respect for everybody involved in ENT Gaming and what you have done for the community! You guys are awesome! Anyway

[aRt)Y]

How would you suggest for us to check for pre-teaming? It has been rarely occurring and we simply dont have the human resources to spend on such long games for something that minor.

[Sappy-Chan]

I think you need someone who knows risk very well to detect preteamers. Someone not involved in risk community might make more mistakes. Most of the time, to check if 2 players are preteamed you can look at their games historic to see if they play a lot together. And if it's suspicious, you can then watch 1-2 games to see if they are indeed helping each other in an abnormal way.

[aRt)Y]

Watching 1-2 games is something we can't afford for something - again - that minor. You will have to provide more specific signs we can check for.
Of course, third parties are invited to comment on the requests but we can't grant them the same credibility as they are no staff members.

Quick question regarding -ally: Does the command still exist?

[Memphis26]

-ally command does not work, and it shouldn't.
I suggest u let sappy-chan be in charge of the risk reports, i understand wc3 is pretty much dead, but if sappy-chan is up to take care of the risk reports you really should let him. Aslong as risk's alive it doesn't hurt by having him solve the risk reports, sappy-chan has been around the risk community for a few years now and im sure everyone in the risk community would trust him to be in charge of the risk reports.

It's alot harder for someone who hasn't been playing risk on a elite level to see the diffrence between teaming and pre teaming which is why someone from the risk community is needed to solve those reports.

Btw a random question, how active is risk compared to the other games you are hosting? except for Legion and Dota

[aRt)Y]

Btw a random question, how active is risk compared to the other games you are hosting? except for Legion and Dota

It's pretty much in the middle of the best and worst autohosted game quantity-wise.

If there are players who are experts in their field, they should apply for a moderator position (if they fulfill our criteria).

If I understood it correctly, Risk Dev is a FFA game (all vs all). So why should "dirty" diplomacy be ban-able under "war conditions"? It sounds a bit like team stacking in DotA or LTD games.