most imba apem hero?

[Tascar]

its all about teamwork. w/o that there is no chance.

so basically, mittlebittle can join a-bal (where teamwork is not present) and win uncontested 15 elo every game.
which basically means he will be #1 ranked player if he chooses to continue to play on that account. hes already 1800 elo with 60 wins. which means in another 60 he will be 2600.


i mean seriously, if anyone else looking at this thread doesnt see the big deal in this, try going 60 straight wins in a-bal with any hero but meepo.
I'll even accept 30 straight wins. I guarantee that no one can do it. cause like you said, when i pick a hard carry, i rely on my team to not go 0-12 in the first 10 minutes and for them to hold them off until at least the 15 minute mark.
no hero should be able to single handily carry the team in such an early time frame.

You are (wrongly) equating a higher elo with more skill. Unfortunately these days a high elo just signifies the ability to exploit stacking or stomp noobs. Do not worry about this "mittlebittle". He is practicing a scrub strategy that is subpar in high level play.

He could be 2600 from feeding on scrubs using meepo, but his true skill will remain as it is: much, much lower.

[thomas.kacz]

You are (wrongly) equating a higher elo with more skill. Unfortunately these days a high elo just signifies the ability to exploit stacking or stomp noobs. Do not worry about this "mittlebittle". He is practicing a scrub strategy that is subpar in high level play.

He could be 2600 from feeding on scrubs using meepo, but his true skill will remain as it is: much, much lower.

the thing is he wasnt exploiting stacking (a-bal games) and he wasnt just stomping downright noobs.

I believe he is a high skill player, he had very good micro over his clones and very good map awareness (i have a suspicion he mh but lets leave that aside) and would vary his item build accordingly to enemy team line up (good knowledge of the game).
and I do not see any way of him losing an a-bal game unless two or more decent players play on new accounts against him.
ur right elo these days mean nothing but it would kind of make me cringe to see him become first place over flowersnow when all he played was a-bal.
however, i dont know if he will continue to play on his account but if he chooses to do so, he will easily climb the ranks uncontested.
all because meepo is imba!

[Tascar]

You are (wrongly) equating a higher elo with more skill. Unfortunately these days a high elo just signifies the ability to exploit stacking or stomp noobs. Do not worry about this "mittlebittle". He is practicing a scrub strategy that is subpar in high level play.

He could be 2600 from feeding on scrubs using meepo, but his true skill will remain as it is: much, much lower.

the thing is he wasnt exploiting stacking (a-bal games) and he wasnt just stomping downright noobs.

I believe he is a high skill player, he had very good micro over his clones and very good map awareness (i have a suspicion he mh but lets leave that aside) and would vary his item build accordingly to enemy team line up (good knowledge of the game).
and I do not see any way of him losing an a-bal game unless two or more decent players play on new accounts against him.
ur right elo these days mean nothing but it would kind of make me cringe to see him become first place over flowersnow when all he played was a-bal.
however, i dont know if he will continue to play on his account but if he chooses to do so, he will easily climb the ranks uncontested.
all because meepo is imba!

A high skill player would not be investing that much time in playing meepo. Auto balanced games in general have low tier players in them, especially considering the EM factor.

He can go by the numbers and play meepo and elo grab all day, but that does not mean that he is actually getting better or good.

This is like if you could increase your boxing ranking through beating up little kids. All his matchups are against little kids and middle school students and eventually he gets to the #1 rank through the system. But once he gets into the ring against good boxers he'll be dead in 10 seconds.

[thomas.kacz]

A high skill player would not be investing that much time in playing meepo.

i've seen a few competitive dota matches featuring a succesful blink dagger meepo. its not down right outrageous to pick him up and invest time in him.

and really my thread was not whether or not mittlebittle is the best player in the world or whether or not he is improving by playing a-bal all day. i was just commenting on how geomancer is imba in apem a-bal. and mittlebittle uses that very well.

honestly its hard for me to sound convincing when no one probably has played against this geo. for the first time in my life it made me go "that is... imba"
sort of like how the first time you played dota, had no idea what was going on and probably got one shotted by lina. you were like "wtf is this dumbass game. how is this remotely fair"

[VirusHunter]

i kinda like your analogy tascar lol. so in that case. if he were to become #1 on ent. then he would be exploited and ridiculed by the public. seeing through his facade.
if meepo is so imba how come ES can stomp him out of existence in a blink? i love meepo tho im not tryin to say anything bad. but like you said he builds items depending what hes playing against and you said his micro is good. so whats the problem here?
edit to merge posts.
i guess you are right i would have to see him play lol. meepo is only imba in my opinion because he automatically gets first place on the score board lol. ok not automatically but it would have to be a really terrible meepo or you would have to play really well in order to beat him lol.

[Tascar]

A high skill player would not be investing that much time in playing meepo.

i've seen a few competitive dota matches featuring a succesful blink dagger meepo. its not down right outrageous to pick him up and invest time in him.

and really my thread was not whether or not mittlebittle is the best player in the world or whether or not he is improving by playing a-bal all day. i was just commenting on how geomancer is imba in apem a-bal. and mittlebittle uses that very well.

honestly its hard for me to sound convincing when no one probably has played against this geo. for the first time in my life it made me go "that is... imba"
sort of like how the first time you played dota, had no idea what was going on and probably got one shotted by lina. you were like "wtf is this dumbass game. how is this remotely fair"

I have been in competitive video gaming for over a decade (some including DOTA) and I can assure you that the actual skill levels of the dota community compared to their max potential and other gaming communities is very low. This is inclusive of the so called "professional" dota players.

In an equal skill high level match, a meepo that spent hard earned farm to rush a dagger would be completely useless and die in 2 seconds. There is no way you could compare a meepo with dagger to someone like lion or sven with dagger.

[thomas.kacz]

In an equal skill high level match, a meepo that spent hard earned farm to rush a dagger would be completely useless and die in 2 seconds.

i forgot which team and tournament this was but they played a suicide bomber style meepo with omni and dazzle supporting. meepo blinks in, poofs and omni/dazzle make sure he stays alive with heals. but i guess that sort of cheese strat won't work consistently when people can ban 5 heroes.

and yes, meepo might not be top tier... but at the pub level (and certainly at the a-bal games) tiers dont really exist.
the point I'm trying to make though is that no single hero should be able to carry an entire team. void can't do that. pl can't do that. they need their other 4 allies to lengthen the game and have to minimize early game losses until void/pl can farm. this is true even in an apem game.
yet mittlebittles meepo starts making an impact around the 5~8 minute mark. thats way too early for a carry.

[Tascar]

You're arguing two different things here.

If we're talking about feeding on scrubs/noobs, I have tons of games where I am using "late game" carries and destroying the opposition even before the 5 minute mark. So when you say that his meepo is already making an impact so early it's not a surprise simply because the scrubs empower him.

If we're talking about playing against good players, then the "cheese strat" you refer to or early domination would not exist at all. And at the pub level tiers DO exist. In fact I would say the tiers matter more for crappy players, but ultimately bad players pick heroes with tons of damage output to the exclusion of others (for example drow over syllabear).

To make another example, there was a game I played against a scrub batrider who tried to questionably tower dive my allies all day. He got away a few times with it simply because batrider has better manueverability than lower tier characters.

[thomas.kacz]

If we're talking about feeding on scrubs/noobs, I have tons of games where I am using "late game" carries and destroying the opposition even before the 5 minute mark.

like 30 consecutive a-bal games? nope.

seriously why do all the high elo players avoid a-bal? cause they don't want to be paired up with noobs that will most likely feed.
mittlebittle is 2k elo, still winning all his a-bal games and I've seen him pair up with deliberate feeders.
until someone shows me an account that wins 30 consecutive a-bal games without the use of geo, i will consider myself correct on meepo being imba apem hero.

[Tascar]

Consider blood seeker a generally accepted low tier hero. In the apem feeder environment he actually stands to become god tier. Again this only works against noobs and scrubs. For example instead of standing still or buying a tp scroll they keep feeding bs. Now even if I get 1000 wins with this strategy and have 3000 elo I still have not practically as advanced my skill level and learned anything worthwhile to bring to a normal game.

[thomas.kacz]

Consider blood seeker a generally accepted low tier hero. In the apem feeder environment he actually stands to become god tier. Again this only works against noobs and scrubs. For example instead of standing still or buying a tp scroll they keep feeding bs. Now even if I get 1000 wins with this strategy and have 3000 elo I still have not practically as advanced my skill level and learned anything worthwhile to bring to a normal game.

first, a tier list is usually based off of competitive teams/competitive games to see which hero has high win rates etc etc. bs is low tier. and i said that tiers dont exist as much in noob games because, like you said, bs can go godlike when noobs dont buy tp scrolls. that doesnt make bs top-tier.
and your not going to get 1000 consecutive wins or 3000 elo with that strat. even in an a-bal game. u can try an ull see youll go at best 40/10 W/L.
seriously just make an account and do that. get 60 consecutive wins with a hero other than geo (10apem games than 50 a-bal games). if your successful, than I was wrong. Geo isnt imba. end of thread. I would look like a fool. but until than theres no point in simply saying "bs can go 1000 wins" "bs can get 3000 elo is apem". those are just words with no evidence. I have evidence that geo is imba in a-bal. mittlebittle and his stats are my proof.

[EdgeOfChaos]

Consider blood seeker a generally accepted low tier hero. In the apem feeder environment he actually stands to become god tier. Again this only works against noobs and scrubs. For example instead of standing still or buying a tp scroll they keep feeding bs. Now even if I get 1000 wins with this strategy and have 3000 elo I still have not practically as advanced my skill level and learned anything worthwhile to bring to a normal game.

first, a tier list is usually based off of competitive teams/competitive games to see which hero has high win rates etc etc. bs is low tier. and i said that tiers dont exist as much in noob games because, like you said, bs can go godlike when noobs dont buy tp scrolls. that doesnt make bs top-tier.
and your not going to get 1000 consecutive wins or 3000 elo with that strat. even in an a-bal game. u can try an ull see youll go at best 40/10 W/L.
seriously just make an account and do that. get 60 consecutive wins with a hero other than geo (10apem games than 50 a-bal games). if your successful, than I was wrong. Geo isnt imba. end of thread. I would look like a fool. but until than theres no point in simply saying "bs can go 1000 wins" "bs can get 3000 elo is apem". those are just words with no evidence. I have evidence that geo is imba in a-bal. mittlebittle and his stats are my proof.

Skill is so much more important than hero choice. Mittlebittle is just a REALLY good player. If FlowerSnow made a new account and picked only Pit Lord, I bet he could get 30 consecutive wins, but if some noob picked Geomancer, he would only get a 50% winrate.

[thomas.kacz]

Skill is so much more important than hero choice. Mittlebittle is just a REALLY good player. If FlowerSnow made a new account and picked only Pit Lord, I bet he could get 30 consecutive wins, but if some noob picked Geomancer, he would only get a 50% winrate.

i know mittlebittle is good, never once did i say he sucks and thats he winning purely off a cheap hero. like i said several posts before, he has excellent micro and map awareness. but even with excellent micro and map awareness, he wouldnt get those stats if he chose void or pl. hats off to him, im just focusing on the hero choice. not his skill.

and as godlike flowersnow is, 30 consecutive wins in a-bal is going to require the right hero... and that in my opinion is only geo.

[Aghnaar]

Man, pit lord is a really strong hero, don't address to him like he's weak. He gets tons of farming and buys godlike items, ending the game in 30 minutes at most. That's if u get to play mid. In side lanes, he's probab ly the best anti-carry hero along with Bane. What I'm trying to say is that skill is what matters more than the hero choice. All heroes got a way to own if played properly.

[Bubblestorms]

pitlord pffft one bkb later pit lord proves to be useless even if he has bkb. A carry can 1v1 him, assuming they are farmed though.