ELO balances at the end of an LTD game?

[iightfyre]

To the best of my knowledge, the ELO w/l of a game is re balanced at the end of the game, not at the beginning. Is this true? And if so, can it be changed?

Here is my argument:

*These numbers are mathematically correct for my arguement*. West team has 1600,1000, 1000, 400 ELO players for an average of 1k ELO. East team has 1000, 1000, 1000, 1000 ELO players for an average of 1k ELO. This game starts at +15/-15 ELO w/l. The "common" argument is that the 1600 ELO player is taking a risk with the 400 player on his/her team but is rewarded with a higher ELO gain if his/her team wins.

HOWEVER:

Now, lets say that the 400 elo player quits on wave 2. Now the West team has an ELO average of 1200 and the East team remains at 1000. The West teams ELO w/l numbers are now readjusted to +13.64 / -16.36. Now the game is a 3v4 disadvantage for the West team AND with a loss, the West team will lose MORE ELO than originally stated on the website before the game starts. If the West team pulls of a very difficult 3v4 victory, the team members are rewarded with LESS ELO than originally stated on the website.

(I have talked to many high ELO players where the "leaver situation" results in losing 28 ELO vs the proposed 18 ELO that the website said was on the line. These numbers get substantially more skewed with players of 1800+ ELO rating.)

Does this make sense that a 3v4 game results in a HIGHER risk to high ELO players? It is because of this flaw in the ELO system that you see a lot of players dodging games and trying to !votekick low ELO players before a game starts. There is actually far more risk involved in playing with a potential leaver and the reward for winning such games are far lower than most people realize.

Do the admins have any thoughts on this system and possible changes to it?

[supersexyy]

Are you sure ELO gets re-balanced with leavers? I'm quite sure it doesn't.

[uakf.b]

Well, it's because the map doesn't set the flag to winner so the stats updater assumes it's loser :/

[supersexyy]

Can't you make the ELO gains/losses lock at the start of the game? If it does re-balance with leavers then that's not a good system.

[iightfyre]

To the best of my knowledge, this is how it works currently. I have only actually noticed the numbers changing a few times from my own experience but I'm almost certain that this is the case. I will log my ELO in public games and give u a concrete example (god willing, I won't have these numbers for some time because I won't have any leavers ) If anyone else can please post the "promised" w/l from the website prior to game starting vs the actual w/l after a 3v4 LTD game this would be very helpful for this tread. Thank You!

(wrote this prior to uakf.b 's reply. But yes... ---^ what supersexyy said )

[BeepBoopBeep]

I have come across this, i played with a 660 elo player on my team. I was ment to gain 6.6 elo when i won, he leaked on level 2 and left. I ended up winning the game and gained 0.6 as he left.

This frustrates me greatly, that i played with a 660 elo player he left making the game 3v4, from here the game becomes much harder playing 1 person down, i manage to win and I'm rewarded with 0.6 elo.

big question mark here

[eyeheartyou]

this is true happens to me every time.... i play .. 2 leavers with low elo... suppose to get 15-17 elo having to 2v4 1v4 then lose more then i was suppose to or win less... i believe it should lock at beginning of game launch

[uakf.b]

Seems to be working now, correctly setting leavers on winning team as winners.

[iightfyre]

Thank you for the quick and appropriate response I will let you know ASAP if the ELO is corrected in the "leaver" situations. Please can you leave thread open until it is verified?

Thanks again for your speedy response and fix!!!

[iightfyre]

First example: ELO with 4v3 advantage went DOWN for East side. Please reference this game:

https://clanent.net/findstats.php?id=1294260

Two leavers on West side before game finish.

Website was fully refreshed in lobby before game started and ELO w/l for East side was set at +3.1 / -26.9

After game finished, actualy ELO w/l for East side was +1.94 / - 28.06

These numbers readjusted in the "proper" fashion as far as I am concerned but is it this working as you had intended?

PS - will keep u posted with more examples as they become available. Thanks again

PPS - I will post an example of a 3v4 victory as soon as possible.

[iightfyre]

PLEASE READ:

The ELO readjustments are still not working with leavers Please reference the following game:

https://clanent.net/findstats.php?id=1294419

The website was fully refreshed in lobby and had an ELO w/l for East team of +3.0 / -27.0

East side had a leaver. Resulting actual ELO that was rewarded to East players was + 0.4

big frown here. Can you please look into this further?

Thanks again!

[uakf.b]

Well, I think.. it might.. be working now?

[iightfyre]

Did you change something since my last post? If so, I'll continue logging ELO for verification.

Thanks!

[uakf.b]

Yes, it was updating the team of the player but not updating the average team ELO or the number of players on each team.

[iightfyre]

WOOT! It appears that the promised ELO from the website is locked now at the start of a game. It has not changed in the last 3 games that I've played where there has been a leaver.

Thanks uakf.b!!! Think we are good to go