Absolutely loving the new DotA map.

[DracoL1ch]

@Burnt Defiitely not my fucking job, but players who actually knows changelog (they didn't blame ME for changes) prefer to play fair (non-em). So it's about benefiting minority of players who actually plays the real dota. em lovers won't disappear, but they should adapt. Only way to do that - force adapting. And since admins do not want to, it's dead end for community which prefers to listen to QQs instead. I've seen that already on iccup. Used to be pretty good platform for CIS players back than, being shitted out for last 3 years due to lack of good games caused by dota2 & bad management.

[balancesheet]

God damn. So I admit I was wrong. Now that the bots have gone back to .83d I miss .85k.

Can we revert back to DracoL1ch's map?

[EmoGirl]

And trolling begins.

[IWinIfyoulose]

@DracoL1ch I would expect 90% of these qq gone if "em" can be added to 6.85L... lol
Totally agree, people like afk farm
Anyway, I support the new map

[pinheadlarry]

I think the one thing the ent community can agree on is we play dota on WC3 instead of dota2 because we like the gameplay better. It is obvious that dracolich's map tries to emulate much more of dota2's gameplay. Therefore I think supporting dracolich's current maps is taking a path away from the dota experience ent players value/want.

I think we can all agree 6.83d is not a perfected map of dota with its imbalances and glitches. But I think what the community really wants is a improved version of 6.83d rather than an totally new spin on dota like dracolich wants to force. What we really want is a map developer who just makes the necessary minor tweaks for balance and maybe a new hero or item once or twice a year.

The next thing to note is how poorly dracolich takes criticism and suggestions. Clearly, he doesnt need to bend for everyone but his leadership and interpersonal skills are awful. When you say these quotes, it really is not going to win you any supporters:

"@Burnt Defiitely not my fucking job"
"Only way to do that - force adapting. And since admins do not want to, it's dead end for community which prefers to listen to QQs instead. "

His mentality clearly has no consideration for maintaining a community player base. To endorse dracolich by promoting his maps would be cancerous for the community.

"Force adapting" is not without consequences. I for one, did not play a game of dota on ent while 6.85k was being hosted. I have played almost 2500 dota games on ent and I would have no second thoughts to bail on dota-ent if the "forced adapting" mentality is adopted by ent. Maybe I wouldn't be much of a loss, but many other players clearly share the same opinion I do which mean some players will adapt but there will be alot of players who will leave.

Even though my opinion of dracolich is very bad right now, I would give him a second chance if he changes the way he acts and if his map-direction changes to be fundamentally more like an improved-6.83d.

With that said, I think we need to be thankful ent has mods like @aRt)Y who actually listen to the community. I encourage dracolich to look at this thread and see how aRt)Y addresses the my suggestions and concerns. Even though I didnt agree with some of what he said, he still addressed what I said with logic and professionalism. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=93282

Even though I disagree, I still have respect for him since he wasn't a d-bag about it.

[sealman]

The next thing to note is how poorly dracolich takes criticism and suggestions. Clearly, he doesnt need to bend for everyone but his leadership and interpersonal skills are awful. When you say these quotes, it really is not going to win you any supporters.

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. His rude behavior and inability to take criticism is certainly clouding everyone's ability to judge the map fairly.

[balancesheet]

Maybe but at the end of the day if he makes a better map, i dont really care

[DracoL1ch]

critisism of what? it's dota2 who makes standards, not me, most of blaming are useless crying "they nerfed X and buffed Y for no reason". who are you to judge that? LOL
keep your lovely 83d as long as you can, if you have no desire to be any better or play at least something different from last 2 years. its totally up to you.

[aRt)Y]

People seem to forget that IceFrog adjusted Wc3 DotA to DotA 2 in the beginning, too - at least the changes which are possible with the wc3 engine.

[SeriouslyStrange]

I agree with DracoL1ch, can we PLEASE move past EM modes where you can just afk farm?
In order to progress the game, and in order to get better games and more fun games, we need to keep moving forward.
Like mentioned before, people only want the past version because of the silly EM version.

[raedric]

I think the new map had it's merits, but I had ridiculous lag issues and got dropped from two games in a row. Quit playing until they reverted to the old one. I think it just needs tweaked and an EM mode added to appeal to the others. Keep an ap only map too, but the em maps are popular and you gain nothing by alienating your playerbase.

[EdgeOfChaos]

critisism of what? it's dota2 who makes standards, not me, most of blaming are useless crying "they nerfed X and buffed Y for no reason". who are you to judge that? LOL
keep your lovely 83d as long as you can, if you have no desire to be any better or play at least something different from last 2 years. its totally up to you.

The mapmaker has this attitude that he knows better than everyone else what we should be playing, and that's everyone is an idiot for wanting to play icefrog's version :\

[DracoL1ch]

critisism of what? it's dota2 who makes standards, not me, most of blaming are useless crying "they nerfed X and buffed Y for no reason". who are you to judge that? LOL
keep your lovely 83d as long as you can, if you have no desire to be any better or play at least something different from last 2 years. its totally up to you.

The mapmaker has this attitude that he knows better than everyone else what we should be playing, and that's everyone is an idiot for wanting to play icefrog's version :\

indeed. who else would know that? 2 players can't even agree on itembuild for a single hero, not to speak of balancing game. It's totally up to the author to use his authority

[Slomosapien]

The mapmaker has this attitude that he knows better than everyone else what we should be playing, and that's everyone is an idiot for wanting to play icefrog's version :\

I doubt he made the map to accommodate people who are not good at the game or who want it to be faster. I doubt he made it at the request of this portion of the DotA community. He made a more complete and updated version to be used by the people who want it.

Your attitudes are not much better. You're just going to ostracize him because he said no to the changes you want. Oh no, curse words?! How dare he?!

There were barely any "requests" made towards him. They were demands! Which is pretty insulting in its own right to be sent towards someone who likely spent a lot of time building the game to work as well as it does.

Saying you don't like his attitude pretty much shows how irrelevant the arguments are getting against it. All you punks want is to trade 10 minutes of gameplay for a pile of updates and changes to a game that hasn't grown in yeeears.

You should be offering thanks for the time and effort put into the game, instead of making demands like petulant children.

[EdgeOfChaos]

critisism of what? it's dota2 who makes standards, not me, most of blaming are useless crying "they nerfed X and buffed Y for no reason". who are you to judge that? LOL
keep your lovely 83d as long as you can, if you have no desire to be any better or play at least something different from last 2 years. its totally up to you.

The mapmaker has this attitude that he knows better than everyone else what we should be playing, and that's everyone is an idiot for wanting to play icefrog's version :\

indeed. who else would know that? 2 players can't even agree on itembuild for a single hero, not to speak of balancing game. It's totally up to the author to use his authority

How is that relevant? DotA is somewhat complex, so 2 players who both know what they're doing can come up with 2 different item builds. Dismissing every concern and then calling people retards for liking EM is something that I can never see someone like Icefrog (much less Valve) doing, which just makes me question whether you have the personality of a person who should be in charge of such things.