Absolutely loving the new DotA map.

[just_stfu]

Another +1 for the new version.

I think the one thing the ent community can agree on is we play dota on WC3 instead of dota2 because we like the gameplay better.

No, we can't agree on that. There's nothing magical about 6.83. I for one just like the WC graphics. There's no reason the gameplay can't evolve like it has been doing for 10 years.

But if it stagnates, that's yet another excellent reason to leave. If the noobs who whine the loudest are the group that gets pandered to, soon they'll be the only ones left. We're almost there already.

[child]

There's no reason the gameplay can't evolve like it has been doing for 10 years.

What do you mean by this? The game won't evolve any more because icefrog is no longer writing the code or whatever for WC3 dota.

[DracoL1ch]

How is that relevant? DotA is somewhat complex, so 2 players who both know what they're doing can come up with 2 different item builds. Dismissing every concern and then calling people retards for liking EM is something that I can never see someone like Icefrog (much less Valve) doing, which just makes me question whether you have the personality of a person who should be in charge of such things.

oh yeah, explain us how does mode from 1998 affects game, aside of reducing pickable heropool to like 20-30% or ofiginal amount? icefrog got rid off EM as soon as dota2 appears - there are no such thing. and any oldschool from dota2 laugh at dota1 for "apem pros only"

[bansheex]

can we PLEASE move past EM modes where you can just afk farm?

Wait. You think map changes can force bad, passive players who have borderline learning disabilities into playing better/differently? That's hilarious.

The only thing non-EM does is make baddies an even bigger feed cancer to their teammates. Which, of course, encourages stacking to avoid them. And one-sided games aren't fun. Nor is taking the chance against the stack and sitting there because none of the idiots want to ff, but you can't leave or you're autobanned. Sounds like fun, bro.

You live in some kind of fantasy world where AP is a good for pubs.

[DracoL1ch]

can we PLEASE move past EM modes where you can just afk farm?

Wait. You think map changes can force bad, passive players who have borderline learning disabilities into playing better/differently? That's hilarious.

The only thing non-EM does is make baddies an even bigger feed cancer to their teammates. Which, of course, encourages stacking to avoid them. And one-sided games aren't fun. Nor is taking the chance against the stack and sitting there because none of the idiots want to ff, but you can't leave or you're autobanned. Sounds like fun, bro.

You live in some kind of fantasy world where AP is a good for pubs.

guess what, dota2 lived 5 years with ap and feels just fine, yet imrpoved it to one-by-one pick stage. somehow noobs there getting at least decent in the end. and here we have braindead persons only? oh yeah, dont forget dozen other platforms of the past with non-em basis.

[Frank]

EM is aids.

[SeriouslyStrange]

can we PLEASE move past EM modes where you can just afk farm?

Wait. You think map changes can force bad, passive players who have borderline learning disabilities into playing better/differently? That's hilarious.

The only thing non-EM does is make baddies an even bigger feed cancer to their teammates. Which, of course, encourages stacking to avoid them. And one-sided games aren't fun. Nor is taking the chance against the stack and sitting there because none of the idiots want to ff, but you can't leave or you're autobanned. Sounds like fun, bro.

You live in some kind of fantasy world where AP is a good for pubs.

Dota 2 is without EM, and the noobs there are actually getting better. While people that play EM here can passively just afk farm and win. Doesn't really encourage a lot of growth. So yes, map changes can force people into different ways. Guess what: when I started playing I would just auto attack and just watch. I got my ass kicked. I adapted and started to last hit. I kept getting my ass kicked for not watching mini-map. I adapted and now I try to predict when a gank against me is going to come.
So yes, newer maps, without an EM mode, DID force me to play differently and play better.

[MageOfTime]

EM is aids.

agreed bring back v6.85k

[StigJames]

I created an account just to vote to move back to the old version. The game play is slow, the new graphics cause my computer to lag, the games fill up much slower. Usually with the updates, they only change a few things. With this update though, they changed so much its pretty much a completely new game. Between changing recipes and nerfing and boosting heros abilities, I have to relearn a lot of the game. I play for just a quick game after work or something, there are too many noobs in here to play non em games and have them be enjoyable.

14 year old game lag your PC. Find a job and buy new pc kid

[just_stfu]

There's no reason the gameplay can't evolve like it has been doing for 10 years.

What do you mean by this? The game won't evolve any more because icefrog is no longer writing the code or whatever for WC3 dota.

Yet here we are discussing a new version?
Doesn't have to be icefrog himself. Did you really need me to explain that?

[bansheex]

Dota 2 is without EM

Dota 2 has matchmaking.

the noobs there are actually getting better.

Some people get better. Some people don't. Some people care about winning, some people are trolls who would just as much enjoy watching their team suffer. There are plenty of players with 1000+ games played who still die twice as much as they kill, lose twice as much as they win or worse. Baddies are stubborn. Bads are gonna build bad and play bad. They're gonna pick glass, run away from battles in pivotal moments, defend when they need to siege, etc etc. You aren't changing them because they don't care about "getting better and winning more". Lawlz. Anyone who has played here for years knows this.

[DracoL1ch]

You aren't changing them because they don't care about "getting better and winning more". Lawlz. Anyone who has played here for years knows this.

winning less -> evolve or leave, both are fine

[SeriouslyStrange]

Well, this pointless arguing is getting us nowhere.
@art)y , could you perhaps have 2 bots hosting? One will host the normal (older) map of Dota, and the second bot will host the newer, more frequent version of Dota.
This way you can also see which one is getting used more and perhaps maybe even both can stay.

[gankbank]

There's no reason the gameplay can't evolve like it has been doing for 10 years.

But if it stagnates, that's yet another excellent reason to leave. If the noobs who whine the loudest are the group that gets pandered to, soon they'll be the only ones left. We're almost there already.

This couldn't be more correct.

For 10 years there has been version updates/changes where unlimited bitching and crying followed...and instead of just giving in to the loudest whiners the game actually adapted, survived, and gameplay improved over time. Changes were always met with resistance at first, and this one feels worse since ENT has gone so long without just implementing the new updates.

There are no egregious changes that absolutely destroy the dota1 experience like half of this whining makes it sound like. Even if there are a few changes I don't agree with there is absolutely no way they outweigh the quality of life, balance and gameplay improvements that were made. As I saw pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the balances taken from dota2 are those that were originally icefrog's. Most if not all of these changes would've made it to dota1 anyway via icefrog if he never jumped to dota2....and just like the previous 10 years of updates there would have been bitching and crying then eventually players adapt, everyone gets over it and the game doesn't suffer one bit.

Really just feels like all these people are reaching for excuses to cover up their 'change is too hard, I'm scared' attitude. Keeping the game stagnant because change is scary is definitely not the right route.

[bansheex]

winning less -> evolve or leave, both are fine

That's not a rebuttal. What did I just say? Bad or care-free players don't change or evolve, their stats clearly reflect that BEFORE taking their gold. They stay bad, they keep playing bad, and the gold changes simply magnify their badness so that their teammates can no longer overcome them.

You can't treat pub games like league games, this whole thread is ridiculous. Dota 2 prevents stacking and we can't. It's an ancient engine with no match-making and people can avoid nabs like the plague here if you nerf their gold handicaps. So stop bringing up Dota 2 like it's some kind of equivalent environment where their changes can be backported and not result in a stackfest.

For 10 years there has been version updates/changes where unlimited bitching and crying followed

None of those changes were as dramatic as halving the amount of free gold to literally thousands of noobs, baddies, and laggers.