votekick rule clarify

[PwnLikeMe]

Couple weeks ago I got banned simply because I delayed my !yes to votekick a member from the enemy team.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=96530&p=382370&hilit=PwnLikeMe#p382370

Sure I was guilty because I took long time to type !yes, and so were all my other team mates because we were benefiting from the feed of the enemy player.

The same thing happend to me yesterday, except this time the feeder (the ruiner) was on my team.
Here is the link to my ban request:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=97427

That request is not being processed and it will probably not be processed in the future either.
So at this point is is very unclear what exactly is the rule when it comes to votekick.
Why sometimes people get banned for it and sometimes not.

I see the rules here http://wiki.entgaming.net/index.php?tit ... ng:VKRules , and since a lot of people are breaking them, what are the consequences ? Are there only special users in the community that can issue ban request and their request will be granted, or are the rules and the consequences for breaking them the same for everybody ?

So to summarize, can we make it easier and more clear to deal with such situations.

Thank you

[aRt)Y]

Taking time and refusing to votekick are two different things. The moderators obviously check whether you've voted or not. If you took your time but voted anyway within the voting process, you will have no trouble. However, should the votekicks fail due to you, then it's your fault.

Every community member can post a ban request or ban appeal and they've no special rights or prioritization.

The votekick rule(s) can not be applied 1:1 to every case as we judge each one independently. There are too many factors and scenarios to handle it as black and white.

What you can do? Try to follow the rules. Ensure what you vote is legitimate. If you arent sure, voice your concerns. Communication is key. Should you vote and the voting turns out to be wrong, you can argue on your appeal that you've voiced your concerns. But to stress it here again (as on the wiki), votekick is a powerful tool for public players and should be used wisely as such.

[PwnLikeMe]

Well in my example, I also voted, but a bit late ,not on the fist vote and i got banned, in the second example, there were multiple voting over 20 minutes and eventually the enemy team voted but nobody got band, I just don't understand the exact rules and if somehow they become more clear it would be good for the entire community.

[efko]

If you arent sure, voice your concerns. Communication is key.

I noticed in some games players which know just a few words of English or nothing, at least once per week I have in my team someone who can't follow single word and I'm wondering what happens with that players and are they obligated to learn English in order to play - this little looks like trolling but it has a point to protect players.

[PwnLikeMe]

The situation is kind of tricky, both teams know really well if someone is feeding or ruining the game, but one of the team has advantage because of it and it is in their interest to act dum until the game is irreversible ruined, once that happens, usually all agree that player should be picked, but the cost is ruined game. Now I gave 2 examples, where some times people get banned because of it and some times not. What we really need is clear guidelines and rules. And Possibly making it automatically build in the bot if possible. And we should ideally have the same rules for everyone , not just only for some people some times.

[aRt)Y]

* If players act dumb as the feeder is in their interest and delay votings, they are subject to punishment. If the voting starts when the game is already over, it isnt their fault.
* If players dont speak English, that's something we cant help nor take into account. English is _the_ world language and taught in any school. As ENT is a global community, you will have to communicate in "our" language.
* If you got banned because you voted 10 seconds too late with the voting still finished successfully, you can appeal the ban and tag me. You should _not_ be banned if you voted for the proper cause in a reasonable time.

As I said, there is no black and white at ENT. Every rule is pretty much based on common sense. If someone game ruins, we expect all to vote for the right thing. Anything else is wrong and subject to judgement by ENT.

[FalenGa]

Hello @PwnLikeMe ,

There is a simple process of priority to the requests that are up for longer. Makes sense i believe.
Your post was uploaded yesterday.
Not even a full day later, you came to the conclusion, that these players will not be banned. This is incorrect.
If you take a look at the ban requests section, you will notice many posts older than yours. Priority is to those posts.

If they indeed failed to votekick, they will be banned once the game is reviewed.
Every single request gets reviewed eventually.

[PwnLikeMe]

Good to know FalenGa, thank you for clarifying.
The reason I made that assumption was because I saw bans submitted after mine and they were reviewed and processed.
It seems to me that we should have something like top 5 most violated rules to be written when the game starts by the bot so we don't have to deal so much with reporting. Because also in defense of someone who is violating the rules, unless he comes to the forum and reads them , how would he know he is violating a rule ?

Also we could do something like autokick if someone apm drops below certain threshold.That should be easy to implement.
Also if someone deads exceed certain threshold relative to the time playing, again with autokick. (Of course in both intances there can be private message latting the user know if he doesn't change his play he will be kicked, he needs to have higher apm and not feed 20 times in 4 minutes from the start.)

[PwnLikeMe]

dotalicious used to have similar rules and the bot was acting on them automatically.
And bans there for game ruin on purpose were severe.

[HazarDous]

I feel like you digress from your main suggestion. As aRt)Y already stressed the subject of "favouritism" and delayed !yes on vote kicks, I will help you find answers to some of your other concerns.

> That request is not being processed and it will probably not be processed in the future either.

It will be processed sooner or lated, and only then should you state your opinion about it.

> The reason I made that assumption was because I saw bans submitted after mine and they were reviewed and processed.

Go read: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=93529

> Because also in defense of someone who is violating the rules, unless he comes to the forum and reads them, how would he know he is violating a rule ?

It is players' responsibility to know the rules. Anyone that breaks a rule and gets reported for it will be banned. Those who do not appeal their ban and thus don't learn their mistake will simply get banned over and over again until lesson is learned. ENT has communication channels to keep players informed about both actual rules and updates (Wiki, Announcements, Social Medias, News & Updates forum, etc). Whether they care to inform themselves or not is yet another story.


Regarding your last two posts, you should post separate suggestions, as we are getting a bit off-topic. Besides, we won't be discussing / implementing so many things on the same thread.


Suggestion denied.