Make ID competitive again

[Burn]

Suggestion:

Make a new ID competitive map, 5v5 (not 6v6, lobby would fill too slow), It would truly be balanced because of rematches and same teams. It would have ban rounds like DotA/Lol.

Half the map is playing 3 red builders vs 1 blue titan + 1 mini, half the map is 3 blue builders vs 1 red titan + 1 mini swaps at 15/20/30 min. Rematches predetermined, best of 1/2/3.

Shouldn't be too hard to do, would be fun.

What are your thoughts on making ID competitive again?

-Burn

[Merex]

How about we just get rid of titans, make it a 5v5 and call it Defense of The Island?

[aRt)Y]

How about we just get rid of titans, make it a 5v5 and call it Defense of The Island?

FFA

[Burn]

C'mon guys, keep this topic serious. FFA ID game-play isn't even close to what real ID is.

-Burn

[FollowingPath]

@Burn What are your thoughts terrain-wise? Will they all be running around the same map or on 2 seperate "islands"?

[Burn]

I would like the map being split in two. Neither side can interact with each other, but you can see the other side of your team.

Some obvious balancing in terrain and cooldowns would be made to make games more fast-paced.

-Burn

[FollowingPath]

The size of each side would be a problem. What about pearls? Wouldn't early basing be too dominant since it would be difficult to have a lumberbase up on a map that's too small? Starting with a minion on the titan side is another problem here.
And how would a victor be decided? FIrst titan to kill 3 builders wins, first titan to die loses?
How much thought have you actually put into this other than "let's make Island Defense 5v5"? A detailed post with your thoughts on several of the changes that would need to be made would be very appreciated.

[Burn]

Obviously there would be some changes to the game, that's step two. Step one is to get an editor interested in making the map.

I'll expand if the community wants to see this happen. My priority is on the suggestions list google docat the moment.

-Burn

[Haunt]

Step one is actually make detailed post and address all the problems etc so anyone would even consider of taking this seriously.

[Burn]

The purpose of this topic is to gauge interest.

So far, every post in here hasn't been very helpful to me.

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

If it makes you feel any better this has already been discussed before and ends up going to the conclusion that for it to work you would have to change the game so much that it wouldn't even remotely be ID anymore except the names of units and the models. You might as well just make a new game is what I'm saying instead of doing this and calling it "competitive ID". Originally the idea to split the map was fun and have two teams but you end up in a situation where they even get completely recked in about 5 mins or they all base and the games over. I mean ID just isn't built to be competitive so the changes needed are so drastic its just not ID anymore.

Having talked about this tons of time its a fun idea but it should be its own game. Not competitive ID.

[Burn]

Yep, that's the point. Make a new map, not a new game mode. And yep, the point is to make fast paced games for entertainment. Stallers would be a viable strategy to get that 15/30 minute mark. Ofc, currently builders like Demo and Sat would be too OP for stalling, so they'd need nerfing.

This map would also fix a lot of the problems with ID at the moment.

viewtopic.php?f=244&t=57240&start=15&hilit=problems+with+island+defense

It'd fix stalling, boredom, unbalance, (reduced amount of leaver builders), ELo system and other.

-Burn

[1337hamburger]

Warning: this post could be seen as rude to some people.

I've heard this game mode tossed around a few times before, I'm fairly certain ShadowZz was looking at doing something like this for the version he is working on. That being said; it seems that everyone agreed that this mode will result in a game that would be closer to evolution tag than island defense.

@burn you feel a game like this would bring a competitive feeling back to island defense, probably not, but what I think it could do is bring a more varied game-style. Many games in warcraft 3 are extremely repetitive island defense being no exception there, but after some time players get bored. . . that is only natural. Although if an element is brought into the game where there is a whole new axis of contest (4 parties trying to win instead of 2) then it will unquestionably aid in replay-ability.


My next statements may come off as loaded questions, but I really don't mean it to be that way.

Spoiler!

Make a new ID competitive map, 5v5 (not 6v6, lobby would fill too slow), It would truly be balanced because of rematches and same teams. It would have ban rounds like DotA/Lol.

Half the map is playing 3 red builders vs 1 blue titan + 1 mini, half the map is 3 blue builders vs 1 red titan + 1 mini swaps at 15/20/30 min. Rematches predetermined, best of 1/2/3.

Shouldn't be too hard to do, would be fun.

"Make a new ID" this is where the issues lies; this post is somewhat of a public calling to any that wish to take on this task (at least that is how I interpreted it). Well that is a nice thought, the problem is that nobody really wants to put dozens, maybe hundreds of hours into making some beta version, that very well may not even get played. A lot of people are constantly expressing discontent over the editing by neco, but really he is just doing it as a hobby, and let's be honest no else (that is competent enough) really wants to spend time editing a ~10 year old mod in a game.

Personally I would like to see the game made, but in actuality I think neco would be the most fit for the job, and let's be honest he would need to be crazy to take on another project like this the way he gets treated around here. As for some random guy reading this thread that might be thinking "hmm maybe I could try and make this game", it will only take a few seconds of clarity for them to realize that they will just end up in necos shoes: getting flamed out on a daily basis for doing a free service.

Lastly if you decide you would like to take on the feat of creating this map burn (you seem to have the know-how to get it done), I'm sure the usual players would support you and help balance/test, I know I myself would.
edit: typos and formating

[Burn]

You make a great point with it being hard to find an editor. However, there is hope still.

Evo tag? It will be the same as Island Defense except it has less players, less terrain, faster paced and more balance-able.

There seems to be a lot of negativity in this thread. I understand it, it's hard to get large scale suggestions implemented. It's about the same chance, or even less, than a builder/titan suggestion getting implemented. It's still good to talk about it though, and how it is feasible as a map.

At the moment all the negatives for ID 5v5 is just people thinking I should give a balance list and all the work it would cost. But really, we could easily split the map in two. Most of the work would be terrain work, then we'd have a "competitive map".

-Burn

[FollowingPath]

There's negativity because it's very clear that you haven't actually thought this through.

Most of the work would be terrain work, then we'd have a "competitive map".

This proves it. Changing the terrain would be the least of the work required. There are so many mechanics in Island Defense that would need to changed or removed if 5v5 is ever going to be thing.

What about pearls? Wouldn't early basing be too dominant since it would be difficult to have a lumberbase up on a map that's too small? Starting with a minion on the titan side is another problem here.

And what about builders? A smaller map means fewer seeds, so will Nature and Radiance have to lumberbase as well? Should they even be included in the builder selection? Is it fair to allow builders that don't build lumberbases when there's just 3 builders total?
Should golding still be a thing? Would it even be possible on a small map with essentially 2 titans from the start?
And what about the titans? Is it fair to leave in all the titans with secondary scouting abilities on such a small map?

All in all, I agree with Shadowzz.

If it makes you feel any better this has already been discussed before and ends up going to the conclusion that for it to work you would have to change the game so much that it wouldn't even remotely be ID anymore except the names of units and the models.