2.34/2.35 Changelog

[Quetra]

Version 2.34D

-Updated all of the descriptions to be less cluttered and more detailed.

Download Link: http://www.epicwar.com/maps/265998/

Version 2.35

Spoiler!

General:

-Made some terrain alterations to top lane in order to stop units from not receiving aggro.
-Updated the models of Axeman, Captain, Grenadier, Fusilier, Aegis Cruiser, Eiffel Tower, Sharpshooter, and Tank.
-Added new icons for Sharpshooter Barracks, Tank, and Artillery Yard.
-Removed starting elite chance.
-Elites gain 15% attack speed, down from 20%.
-Remade elite chances for deactivating wonders. (Previously the numbers shown were actually incorrect. I made the chance proportionate to the cost of each spawn.)
-Remade material gain: now 5/15/20 (+5 basic material income) for bot control, and +3 for controlling middle circle and +3 for controlling top circle.
-Selling materials will give you 200 gold for 300 materials (was 225 gold). Buying materials will give you 200 materials for 300 gold. (was 225 materials).
-Removed the water in middle lane so that you can no longer build docks there.
-Fixed a bug where Sun Tzu being cancelled after another player built it would give the player back 225 gold less then the total cost.

New:

-Added new Ancient Wonder, The Old Stables. Spawns a Horseman, an Archer, and gives the player +1 Build Limit. Costs 900 and requires Writing.
-Added new Medieval Wonder, Atilla's Hut. Costs 1550 gold, acts as a material market, spawns a Mounted Archer and a Knight, and gives +1 BL. Requires Chivalry. Can be built on its own or upgraded to through the Old Stables for a 100g discount. Takes 50 seconds to upgrade and 200 seconds to build. If you have the Old Stables, your team can no longer build Atilla's Hut. The upgrade will disappear if another player builds Atilla's Hut first, or if you deactivate The Old Stables. If you choose to upgrade, you will not receive another +1 BL from Atilla's Hut. Once you have built The Old Stables your team can longer build Atilla's Hut. Once you have built Atilla's Hut your team can no longer build The Old Stables. Requires Chivalry.
-Added new Medieval Wonder, Saint Michel's Abbey. Costs 1800 gold, acts as a bank, spawns a Cutter Saint, and doubles the amount of materials the player that built it gets from bot control (does not double materials gained from mid/top). Requires Banking.
-Added new Medieval Wonder, The Great Temple. Gives every allied unit on the map the General's +3 armour effect. Costs 1600, and requires Leadership and Military Tradition.
-Changed General's name to Captain. Added a new upgrade from Military Academy, General's Heliport. Helicopter unit that attacks twice as fast as the Captain. Has the same
damage, health and armour, but with Light armour type instead of Modern Infantry.
Attacks from 1000 range (Same as Bunker/Sharpshooter.) Requires Flight.

Balance Changes:

-Reduced the health of the Warrior Camp and Deactivated Unit from 1000 to 750.
-The Great Obelisk's material cost has been increased from 125 to 200.
-Savage Warrior Camp upgrades into Swordsman Barracks and Pikeman Barracks rather than Swordsman Barracks and Longbowman Barracks.
-Magellan's Expedition now spawns 2 caravels instead of 3, and has had its cost reduced to 2000 from 2700.
-Bazaar of Alexandria now gives +10 for the first set of markets you build, +15 for the second, +20 for every set afterwards.
-Reduced the range of Grenadiers from 500 to 450.

Download Link: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/civ ... -35.81109/

[RaptorXI]

Changes look ok to me, except for these three:

-Reduced the health of the Warrior Camp from 1000 to 750.
-The Great Obelisk's gold cost has been increased from 540 to 625
-Magellan's Expedition now spawns 2 caravels instead of 3, and has had its cost reduced to 2000 from 2700.

1.) If you want to nerf the early blocker camp, it should be for the deactivated unit too.
2.) Rushing Obelisk is impossible with this gold cost (I would liked tos ee something like 550 gold and 200 lumber).
3.) Magellan was already one of those never built wonders, and with the average price of a caravel increased from 900 to 1000, it's even more.

and maybe 4.) Bazaar could be a bit more expensive like 900 or 1000 gold.

[Quetra]

1.) If you want to nerf the early blocker camp, it should be for the deactivated unit too.

That was an oversight. Thanks.

2.) Rushing Obelisk is impossible with this gold cost (I would liked tos ee something like 550 gold and 200 lumber).

X.G thought it was too much too, so I will revisit this and think about how to properly nerf it. Probably either a slight reduction in gold or material output and keeping the cost the same, or a more minor cost increase.

3.) Magellan was already one of those never built wonders, and with the average price of a caravel increased from 900 to 1000, it's even more.

It is less efficient per caravel at 2000 because it is much easier to amass 2000 gold for the wonder than it was to amass 2700, which was a large part of why the wonder went unused. In the test games so far, Magellans proved to actually be very strong. I had it at 1800 gold and increased it to 2000 because of its strength. When a lot of the time you are adding 2 caravels to top anyway, building the wonder for a discount is quite effective (and caravels don't fall off in strength for a while.)

4.) Bazaar could be a bit more expensive like 900 or 1000 gold.

I will see how this version of Bazaar performs once its public, and then apply further changes if needed.

[Mleko_O]

Savage change is perfect, descriptions are really useful

[Kenderfail]

As long as the terrain alterations improve top aggro and don't cause more unit stopping I support them.
Haven't seen all the updated models but they look good so far and I really like the new icons.
Elites nerf slightly is good as long as with the percentages it's not too underpowered an increase.
I think the superhighways chance might be too high given the railroad/income increase in comparison to big ben.
New ancient wonder seems good though I worry about the power of the +1 bl later in the game but that will just be a minor balance point.
I agree with increasing obelisk cost, and while it may be going too far, it's a really strong wonder so it might be fine to make it 625, increasing lumber cost is safer though.
I like savage change (I think... unless it ends up too easily countering horses)

Magellan's change is good, and it was too strong at 1800 but might be fine at 1900.
Bazaar change is good.

[magicbox]

Magellan isn't so strong as u think. It works 4-5 minutes only when u need to stack t4 on bot and have to play 2/2. Worst wonder, imho. But it become more attractive for late modern games.
Why do u want to disable "sav to long" up? Now I can keep bot with 6(9) camps at (0-12;15-18;19-28]. It is a best way while ur mid plays 2/2 (or vs gw @ mid). You want to fix 5-6 close debutes with different timing or you want more crazy mid fights or IH in pub? Sorry, buddy, but I don't understand ur main idea.
And I think we need to nerf Bazar and obe and add 200 gold to red and purp at start for more variants.

P.S. btw, did u fix lumber bug on Zipang? I forgot

[Quetra]

Magellan isn't so strong as u think. It works 4-5 minutes only when u need to stack t4 on bot and have to play 2/2. Worst wonder, imho. But it become more attractive for late modern games.

It was pretty effective in our test games so far. If it needs further buffs, I will apply those in later versions. I am cautious not to overbuff or overnerf anything.

Why do u want to disable "sav to long" up? Now I can keep bot with 6(9) camps at (0-12;15-18;19-28]. It is a best way while ur mid plays 2/2 (or vs gw @ mid). You want to fix 5-6 close debutes with different timing or you want more crazy mid fights or IH in pub? Sorry, buddy, but I don't understand ur main idea.

For the first 5 minutes bot plays out exactly the same way: one player wins the lane early, gets mass savages, locks lane. There is no variety here, so it makes for boring gameplay. Savage mass is a safe strategy because you can simply upgrade them to longbows, a great ranged unit. Not only does this make the strategy very effective, it also encourages players to be more likely to go for longbows when other ranged units in that tier are actually viable.

By changing the upgrade path, you are forced to go melee instead of longbows, limiting the amount of savages you can have if you want to go 6 ranged. (and you give up the opportunity to go horse). This + the new Ancient Wonder means that you will be actually able to swing the lane back in the early game if the team that didn't get savages wants to try and do that. Also, 3 sword in front was a viable strategy for Mounted, so it likely makes Mounted more viable.

And I think we need to nerf Bazar and obe and add 200 gold to red and purp at start for more variants.

P.S. btw, did u fix lumber bug on Zipang? I forgot

If you read the Changelog for 2.35 Beta G, there is a Bazaar and Obe change. Adding 200 gold to red and purp would be interesting, I guess I would be willing to try it if there was enough support for the idea. I don't want to make too drastic changes, though.

What is the lumber bug on Zipang?

[magicbox]

Savage mass is a safe strategy because you can simply upgrade them to longbows, a great ranged unit

You are mistaken. Opponent has variants to lock bot from 5 till 14 and from 17 till 24 or from 11 till 31. No need to discuss tactics here. Wisper me if u have some questions.

[Quetra]

Wisper me if u have some questions.

I will add you on Useast (I believe you play from there) and whisper you if there are tests going down. Best way to see the impact of these changes is to play the new version.

I will say however that just because it is possible to push back savage mass in the early game, does not mean it is optimal to do so. You need to invest a lot of gold and time not teching. Otherwise, the best course of action is just to let them have the lane until t2 ranged (which is what people do.) Imo, this is not very interactive. There is a reason why savages have dictated the course of early bot for the past few years, and why people do not generally use other early game variants. (This is also related to the reluctance of mids to add to bot because of the usefulness of adding to top. I have changes to address this coming soon, and hopefully the new Ancient Wonder will also be incentive for this.)

[Quetra]

Updated the main post with a new Beta. I've now made about all the balance changes/new features I planned for this version. (I have ideas still for future versions, but I'd prefer to wait to see the impact of these changes first.)

Of course, everything is still subject to change. Please let me know what you think of the new changes.

[supersexyy]

Megallans sucks for the same reason as noone builds iron works. You can't deactivate it. Give it 3 frigates, that would be cool I reckon.

Obelisk to 640 is way way too much. Maybe around the 580-600 mark.

Make Big Ben useful.

[Quetra]

Obelisk to 640 is way way too much. Maybe around the 580-600 mark.

Read the latest changelog, I reverted it to 540 and increased the material cost to 200.

Megallans sucks for the same reason as noone builds iron works. You can't deactivate it. Give it 3 frigates, that would be cool I reckon.

That's not true, because Iron Works is built all the time nowadays. (I played 5 or so games today, and Iron Works was built in 2 of them) I don't believe that is the reason Magellan's was bad. Giving it frigates would mean I have to increase the cost again, which brings back the problem of nobody wants to save up that much gold. Certainly 3 would be too much for this reason.

Make Big Ben useful.

This version has mostly been aimed at land units/wonders. I plan to make more changes to top for the version after. In Big Ben's case, I will be tweaking Dreadnoughts, which in turn will make Big Ben useful.

[supersexyy]

You don't have to change the cost, just let it produce frigates. It will be op but it will also be a change to the mass galley top strat.

[Quetra]

You don't have to change the cost, just let it produce frigates. It will be op but it will also be a change to the mass galley top strat.

I will not purposefully make something overpowered. The meta can be shifted in other ways. If Magellan's is still underperforming after this current change I will make further changes to it. Changing it to fireships is one option I have thought about, but its not very thematic with the wonder name. Frigates is another option I will consider, but it would be with a cost increase.

[supersexyy]

By overpowered I mean value to cost ratio is strong. Even giving it 2 frigates + 1 caravel would be good

There are many other factors to consider. For a mid player locking the bottom lane is important at this time, also pushing to east zip/banking so resources are very scarce. As you cannot deactivate this wonder, it is a huge gold sink. Even with Frigates, I'm not even sure if it will be a a go-to wonder.

For a top lane player it could come at a cost of winning the early lane by massing. Other factors to consider include the long build time, change of the wonder dying etc.

The change may not be as significant as you think.

Changing it to fireships is a bad idea, fireships are in a unique place where they come in and out of the meta.

And this isn't about 'shifting the meta'. This is about making everything in the game viable, hence increasing the strategy. Imagine a game where panama canal (and others) is a viable wonder and sidelanes can have a strategy of marketing. I think that would be an amazing change.