Buying tangoes and having allies sell them

[Undef]

ah great thanks for clarifying

[greenmtn]

@Undef

Yeah honestly i think selling linken shoudln't be bannable reason because people usually sell linken when they are 6 slotted and linken is usually the useless item at that point for certain heroes. Its just weird how some people can be banned after they have all gear and want to swap out. They have to hold on to linken because once they sell it is just auto activated =/

In that case, he wouldn't receive a ban. If his intentions were just to upgrade linkens to a better item, then he is free to do so.

See this is what I was seeking clarification on. If you're claiming a ban would be applied to a person who has the intent to just sell the linkens for the spell block, then what does it mean to upgrade linkens to a better item?

How do you define what a "better item" is? There is still some ambiguity here.

My original post was explaining a 60+ minute game when you have 10k gold, enough gold for bb, you're 7-slotted (you sold linkens for a "better item") and wanted to know about pooling money to allies.

I've received a clear response on selling tangoes, but am still asking for clarification on the linkens.

[FalenGa]

@greenmtn
I would like to start by saying once more that i've never experienced this one before. It's completely new to me.

I will give you two clear examples. One of "ill" intent, and one of honest intent.

A player buys linkens as a 2nd-3rd-anything but 7th item. He is using in a normal way, while building up the rest of his slots.
At some point, he has 6 full items, and believes that linkens is no longer useful. So, he decides to sell his linkens, and get a better, more useful item.
Now, it doesn't really matter what that better item is. It's his intentions that matter most.

What do i mean by that?

Dishonest example :
Well, let's say he sells linkens and buys something cheap, like a dagger. Then drops his dagger on a chicken/ground, and buys another linkens, receives the buff, sells the 2nd linkens, and picks up his dagger.
That would be an abuse.

Honest example :
While if he simply sold his linkens, bought a dagger, and never attempted to exploit the linkens glitch, he would be just fine.

Conclusion :
We can't force people to keep linkens with them for the whole game. They are simply not allowed to exploit certain glitches, like the whole -having the buff while the item is not in your intentory- deal.
Of course, in the honest example, he would still have the buff for 1 time. But that's inevitable.

I hope you understand my point.

[greenmtn]

@greenmtn
I would like to start by saying once more that i've never experienced this one before. It's completely new to me.

I will give you two clear examples. One of "ill" intent, and one of honest intent.

A player buys linkens as a 2nd-3rd-anything but 7th item. He is using in a normal way, while building up the rest of his slots.
At some point, he has 6 full items, and believes that linkens is no longer useful. So, he decides to sell his linkens, and get a better, more useful item.
Now, it doesn't really matter what that better item is. It's his intentions that matter most.

What do i mean by that?

Dishonest example :
Well, let's say he sells linkens and buys something cheap, like a dagger. Then drops his dagger on a chicken/ground, and buys another linkens, receives the buff, sells the 2nd linkens, and picks up his dagger.
That would be an abuse.

Honest example :
While if he simply sold his linkens, bought a dagger, and never attempted to exploit the linkens glitch, he would be just fine.

Conclusion :
We can't force people to keep linkens with them for the whole game. They are simply not allowed to exploit certain glitches, like the whole -having the buff while the item is not in your intentory- deal.
Of course, in the honest example, he would still have the buff for 1 time. But that's inevitable.

I hope you understand my point.

In regards to your last point, the buff doesn't last 1 time. The linkens spell-block lasts the remainder of the game and just has a cd as if it was in your inventory.

So you sell it, the spell block applies; someone casts on you, it's blocked. 15 secs later you have the spell block again.

I understand your point of intent, in my games and games with other high-level players, we usually won't sell the linkens until we are 6-slotted when we need to make room for a rapier, buriza, etc.

[FalenGa]

@greenmtn
Wow. So it will stay there forever?.. I had no idea.

Well, i honestly don't know what to tell you.
One one hand, you can't be forced to keep an item forever. And on the other hand, this is obviously not how it's meant to be.

I guess, since this is a very big advantage, you would have to keep that linkens on you.

Thankfully, most games don't last that long.

[greenmtn]

@greenmtn
Wow. So it will stay there forever?.. I had no idea.

Well, i honestly don't know what to tell you.
One one hand, you can't be forced to keep an item forever. And on the other hand, this is obviously not how it's meant to be.

I guess, since this is a very big advantage, you would have to keep that linkens on you.

Thankfully, most games don't last that long.

So are you agreeing that I just keep doing what I'm doing as long as the intent is to not just sell linkens for the spell block? I chose to bring this to the attention of your moderators and as you can see, many weren't even aware of how it worked.

My intent is to not get banned, but you use a map with this glitch and there are times where linkens isn't needed. You're also stating that you can't force players to keep an item, but that a player would have to keep the linkens. 6.83k does away with that linkens glitch and dota-void hosts 6.83k (which allows for additional items: moonshard absorption, upgraded boots of travel, silver edge).

In Dota 7.00 they now have a "backpack" that allows players to have 3 inactive items that can be changed when near shops. I think the direction is, we earn more gold than we need for items to be purchased and hence need to open slots or allow items to be upgraded.

[FalenGa]

@greenmtn
Well, i have no power over what version of dota ENT is using.

For the change you are suggesting to happen, you need to create a suggestion, provide as much information as you can, and try to get the community to back you up on it.

[greenmtn]

@greenmtn
Well, i have no power over what version of dota ENT is using.

For the change you are suggesting to happen, you need to create a suggestion, provide as much information as you can, and try to get the community to back you up on it.

@falenga

Ok, so what's the verdict on the linkens?

[FalenGa]

I guess, since this is a very big advantage, you would have to keep that linkens on you.

[Frank]

Lul i been using that linkens glitch intentionally for a year now. ban me.

[nitromon]

My 2 cents.

Why complicate things?

Make it so that if you bought a linken, then you own it. You are not permitted to sell it. Period. Make this the rule. Ambiguity leads to a slippery slope.

I mean, "intent" whether a person sells it to exploit or is genuinely selling it at the 60 min mark doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The fact is this is a "glitch," and if the user know about the glitch, then it doesnt matter when he sells it. If he "knowlingly" sells the linken with the knowledge he still retains the block, then that is intent to exploit. Having 6 items and a 7th ability to block is exploit, no matter which way one looks at it.

Just my opinion.

[aRt)Y]

As you are having an in-official discussion here regarding what is ban-able and what not, you should be careful what you do in-game.

As a quick reminder though, if you know about the bug/glitch that linken's ability will remain on your hero despite the item being sold, then you should act accordingly and either dont buy it or dont trigger it. If you did in fact trigger it, you should leave the game to avoid a ban for potential glitch abuse - as in any case. This is not ENT's responsibility but yours.

[BiLyA]

Why make things so complicated? Just ban people that buy linkens and sell in instantly only in order to trigger the bug, and not the ones that keep the item for long in their inventory, but at some point they have to get rid of it late late game.
One of my ember spirit builds for example is travels>battlefury>crit>linkens>manta>mkb
If game goes beyond 45-50 min, I need to buy divine. At that point, the only item I can sell is linkens, because I need battlefury for the cleave on sleight of fist, I need the crit to be able to one shot people, mkb in order not to miss and manta to remove silences or dodge stuns. I don't think that in this case a ban should be enforced because clearly I don't wanna abuse the bug, I just sold a mid game item in order to survive late game.

[nitromon]

If game goes beyond 45-50 min, I need to buy divine. At that point, the only item I can sell is linkens, because I need battlefury for the cleave on sleight of fist, I need the crit to be able to one shot people, mkb in order not to miss and manta to remove silences or dodge stuns. I don't think that in this case a ban should be enforced because clearly I don't wanna abuse the bug, I just sold a mid game item in order to survive late game.

You have a good reason why you should keep each of those items, but if losing the linken also means you will lose the "block" then you have a reason to keep the linken - it blocks spells and gives you attributes and mana/hp regen

There are some heroes who still cannot sell aghn scepter once they bought it, they can't even move it to another spot b/c the scepter alters some aspect of the hero permenantly and they cannot remove it. Likewise linken should not be sellable b/c when sold, it glitches. That's the whole concept of exploiting a glitch, whether it is 2 min after buying it or after 60 mins b/c it is "knowing" the glitch and still act on it. If you want the ability, you must have the item.

But again, only my opinion b/c I'm bored. I'm sure the Ent staff will have their own conclusions. But since I never sell linkens anyways b/c I rarely even built it, but for heroes that I do built it for... it is usually for the attributes + regen. I don't like tanking with all the same items like 2-3 hearts, prefer a combo of linken, satanic, heart, scepter, bloodstone, etc...

[Frank]

It should just be allowed tho. consider it like the moonshard of dota 1. only comes into play late game and everyone can do it if they know about it, and you should be rewarded for knowing it just like everything else. its not a gamebreaking bug by any stretch of the imagination. being 6 slotted plus spell block is not ruining the game just adapt and play around it. seeing as how the game is not going to ever get updated people are naturally going to figure out ways to "abuse" the mechanics of the game so you should let people adapt and play around it. You could technically also ban people for spamming "s" on spirit breaker to get more bashes between attacks since it procs the bash chance at the front swing not when the hit lands. Oops did I reveal another bug? maybe you should start banning people for it, or better yet ban them for picking the hero. While youre at it ban slark meepo arc warden since theyre clearly not balanced. ( /s)