HealByColor

[Diablo_]

I don't believe he should have 70% or more by now anymore. When we had this it was even before he served his 1 year, and I think you can only make an exception if it is with a big majority. The other time we had more than 70% was with Drahque, because he had his behavior issues on top.

I don't see why a 'no' vote should count more than a yes-vote in this case. I.e. why should people who have a hard time accepting that other people aren't perfect be more important than people who acknowledge that people can change and want to grant HBC to have his fun like he is trying to get in a fair and good way for a while now.

Because HBC lost every right to be part of LIHL. There's objectively little reason why our legit players should suffer by him joining (even if it is only subjectively like having a bad feeling playing with/against him).
I don't think many people of the yes voters would actually enjoy LIHL more if HBC comes back but definitely many of the no voters would enjoy LIHL less (as some stated stuff like dodging games he is in and such).

[ArMeDaNdDeAdLy]

He can find another game where he doesnt find the need to create drama,cheat, mislead then try to cover it up.With your logic draqhue shouldve been in long time ago, since he served his sentence way more than hbc.Some people think they own lihl and wanna revouch their ex mhers (or even current) friends while being negative towards others.Either you treat all the same or dont bother.Lastly it should ve over 75% the people who want him unless you wanna lose active members over a guy who doesnt appriciate lihl and finds the need to create drama,cheat, mislead and fuck over "his friends"

[dweiler]

I look at that differently. If there is a majority of the people who want a league where people don't get banned for life/get second chances even if they did something terribly wrong, then their vote counts just as much as people who say we shouldn't.

It is wrong to say people who don't want something are more important. It is about what we stand for as LIHL and everyone's vote should be equal in that.

If they have legit problems after he joins if the majority wants a league with 2nd chances, i.e. he makes amazing calls/overbuilds for warriors and stuff and they have objective concerns after, of course that should be taken seriously.

[Beastman]

I don't believe he should have 70% or more by now anymore. When we had this it was even before he served his 1 year, and I think you can only make an exception if it is with a big majority. The other time we had more than 70% was with Drahque, because he had his behavior issues on top.

I don't see why a 'no' vote should count more than a yes-vote in this case. I.e. why should people who have a hard time accepting that other people aren't perfect be more important than people who acknowledge that people can change and want to grant HBC to have his fun like he is trying to get in a fair and good way for a while now.

"the only way he can ever return to the league is if he shows how he can fail the SS-test without maphacking. If he doesn't he should never get into the league again, just like all the other people who maphacked." -Mickey the Mousie viewtopic.php?f=207&t=75250&p=303633&hilit=he+can+ever+return#p303633

[dweiler]

May I just say in my defence this was 6 months after he got banned and he didn't admit to maphacking yet

Also in simpler words to my last comment: if we keep this 70% rule no one can ever return to LIHL after maphacking even if the majority thinks we should allow, because there is always a group who doesn't want anyone back. (I mean if they don't want HBC back no one will ever get back).

[Don_Killuminati]

I see a lot of extrapolated and emotional posts, which its imo not great to make an impartial and fair judgment.

I do believe that he wont mh anymore because if you wanna mh safely, you sure have to be discret and free from any suspicions, which its not the case of HBC, so it would be really dumb from him to dare try it anymore and would revealed huge mental issues.

I also assume that he diddled himself enough by mhing ( 1.5 year ban + mh sticker for ever ) and also believe that @HealBycolor understood the main reason of not cheating, diddling the community for peanuts elo was for sure from him a bad calculation and im pretty sure that he get enough time to thinks about it.

All in all, i see hbc ambition here as forgiveness request for LIHL community and ppl who gets diddled from him. Imo the best choice here is to forgive but never forget.

P.S : Both last Mhers caught were both unexpected, one of them was overall mannered (HBC) and the other one was bottom with 700elo (wonderchild), so i really wonder why do we still get a defective ss test procedure? We do need a moderator online to make a ss test? Does it means that if someone decide to mh while no mods online, he would had 0 risk to get caught? Pretty paradoxical knowing the past and emotionals reactions about HBC over here !

[Diablo_]

@ mick
MH bans have always been meant to be permanent in LIHL. Allowing someone back in would just be an exception and not the rule.

From the Staff guide:

If someone is caught maphacking based on fog click(s), violator will be permanently unvouched and also be banned from all ENT bots. LIHL is a league, therefore, our expectations and standards for quality gaming are a lot higher. Therefore, it is unlikely to revouch an ex-maphacker. If the violator wishes to redeem himself, he has to first post an ENT ban appeal and once approved, he can post another appeal on lihl including a poll for his revouch. Over 85% of revouch votes will be required to be considered. If certain players cannot trust the ex-maphacker for his past deeds and do not wish to play any games with him, reasons are legit and therefore will impact his appeal.

[dweiler]

Okay, if that is the policy. I just don't like that negativity is considered more important especially after so long. I bet they will be surprised if they forgive someone how it isn't hell like they are expecting

[Beastman]

@ mick
MH bans have always been meant to be permanent in LIHL. Allowing someone back in would just be an exception and not the rule.

From the Staff guide:

If someone is caught maphacking based on fog click(s), violator will be permanently unvouched and also be banned from all ENT bots. LIHL is a league, therefore, our expectations and standards for quality gaming are a lot higher. Therefore, it is unlikely to revouch an ex-maphacker. If the violator wishes to redeem himself, he has to first post an ENT ban appeal and once approved, he can post another appeal on lihl including a poll for his revouch. Over 85% of revouch votes will be required to be considered. If certain players cannot trust the ex-maphacker for his past deeds and do not wish to play any games with him, reasons are legit and therefore will impact his appeal.

Well that settles it - 85%

[HealByColor]

I would like to thank all [ENT] STAFF for many of the people that have never been an [ENT] staff member will probably never understand the struggle of having to make extremely hard decisions knowing that you will not make everyone happy. You donate a lot of you personal time to try to make things as fair as possible and you will make mistakes and you will be ridiculed even if you're correct this is the life of an [ENT] STAFF member It makes it all worth it though when you know you did a good job and made the game a better place not everyone can do this task and some wouldn't want to but thank you staff members.

I could like for days all the good things I've done or possibly argue that LIHL was partially started up because of a couple of moderators me being one. This would not change the fact that what I did was wrong all in all I know over my years with [ENT] my GOOD>BAD. It seems that I will never get into LIHL again that is a risk I took when I decided to MH so that is my fault for sure.

I would just like to thank all parties that replied good and bad because all of your opinions matter.

[iamyoursenpai]

I think this guy should get a trial(since 50%+ yes) and probably we do a 2nd Poll after the trial? I dont even know him But i think that everyone (especially with that Attitude) should have a 2nd Chance.

[supersexyy]

Let's have a vote on how many votes HBC requires #democracy

[Beastman]

From the Staff guide:
'If someone is caught maphacking based on fog click(s), violator will be permanently unvo*uched and also be banned from all ENT bots. LIHL is a league, therefore, our expectations and standards for quality gaming are a lot higher. Therefore, it is unlikely to revouch an ex-maphacker. If the violator wishes to redeem himself, he has to first post an ENT ban appeal and once approved, he can post another appeal on lihl including a poll for his revouch. Over 85% of revouch votes will be required to be considered. If certain players cannot trust the ex-maphacker for his past deeds and do not wish to play any games with him, reasons are legit and therefore will impact his appeal.'

85% yes required in order for it to be considered, by staff

[Jabba41]

Just my two cents after reading this topic the last days.

I understand if you cant trust him aftr whhat happened. But IMO, and thats just my view as we dont have any guidelines for the LIHL mods in these cases, you should somehow repsect how ENT works with such bans.
As mods will give them another chances, 3rd chances for MH happened aswell already.

Ofc if they get suspircious again they wont eve given the benefit of the doubt or something, their cases are handled much harder usually.


IMO it gives a you bad reputation to you guys if you reject people who served their ban times + some time on top of it.

[Kirim]

Okay, if that is the policy. I just don't like that negativity is considered more important especially after so long. I bet they will be surprised if they forgive someone how it isn't hell like they are expecting

Mick sort your life out. The negativity came from someone cheating and abusing peoples trust. Not from people who don't want to have to play with him again.

This isn't about forgiving anyone, who cares about forgiving, I could forgive him 150 times over and that still would not change the fact that I do not want to have to play with a cheater and a liar.

I have no idea why certain people are trying to pressure others into 'forgiving' in this case. This is on one person and one person only and it is no one else's fault or problem.

Just put it to a vote and be done with it forever.