Revert lod

[Sylvanas]

Suggestion 1: Switch md back to sd
Suggestion 2: Undo whichever mode change made jungle creeps spawn immediately at the start of the game instead of shortly after lane creeps as normal.

As you already know, lod was just changed from sd to md. Unfortunately, considering a very small portion of players use this forum, I feel like a handful of people imposed this change on a majority that didn't want it to be part of lod (at least this is the vibe I got from asking in games). It's now supposed to be in trial. How will that work? Will it be cancelled if less games get played? What if there's no difference, which one will stay? As of now, most people are just plain unaware of it. They never knew about the suggestion and no one told them that it passed. Since they don't realize the other team shares their drafts, the md-induced cross team twin heroes are being interpreted as coincidences. Eventually word will spread and I hope that some of those who previously didn't give their feedback on it could be able to do so here.

As for the second thing, that change was passed quite a long while ago without me noticing (which is on par with the average suggestion made here). It allows jungle based heroes to get a headstart in exp before the bounty runes even spawn and then maintain it, for no particular reason. Jungling is already very effective in lod. There's pretty much always one in every team and since you can get a skillset that speeds it up further compared to standard dota heroes, while laning still has the same set amount of exp to be gained from the barracks spawn. Junglers typically get a huge exp advantage and then can start ganking level 4 or so lane heroes with their first ult. I'm wondering who suggested it and why it was judged to be an improvement. I think it's not and should be removed too.

[CheW]

What negatives have you noticed since MD was introduced? And as far as jungling goes, jungling has the disadvantage of less gold unless you have greed. If you do have greed you have that skill slot taken up by that in the early game as far as ganking.

[Sylvanas]

What negatives have you noticed since MD was introduced? And as far as jungling goes, jungling has the disadvantage of less gold unless you have greed. If you do have greed you have that skill slot taken up by that in the early game as far as ganking.

Only played one game since it was changed. It was unintentional, since the game name still said sd. Slots 5 and 10 were basically twins separated at birth and that's about it. I don't have to play it to know what md means and honestly I just don't want to. I know from asking in the last few games I played before the change went live that those I told about the upcoming mode change weren't thrilled about it. Nowhere near enough people to claim I know for a fact that this is what everyone wants, but it's not like anyone was really consulted in the first place either.

Unless you're being harassed by someone (often not an easy task against an helix jungler with level advantage), jungle gold and exp are reliable while lane gold isn't. One way or another, junglers in lod are more effective than junglers in dota, it's as simple as this. Why they get a special rule change that translates in large chunk of extra exp at the start is just puzzling.

[CheW]

So you don't like the mode but you've only played 1 game on the mode and already had a predisposition to disliking it without playing it?

[Happiness]

i like the new ideas coming out for the modes, and this mode is indeed interesting, but the most entertaining and prefered mode on my personal opinion is sd , itll be great to have it as a secondary option, but prioritize the original game mode this is why we prefer ent over other hosting servers cheers
edit: just read this is the wrong thread, however its all about the same, i agree with Sylvanas to revert the mode to SD

[Happiness]

the other team shares their drafts, the md-induced cross team twin heroes are being interpreted as coincidences.

i hate this fact, i want my own personal draft based on my RNG luck lol and not share it with others

and suggestion 2 is also great, i never thought of it, but it would be a good improvement so we dont get someone roshing at minute 3 and game over

[CheW]

The whole point of this was to balance out some of the overpowered combos and make the game less about luck and more about skill.

As to the -FN part, it's not hard to gank someone in the jungle as they are completely exposed for the first 5 minutes of the game. 1 person with a stun can usually go harass the jungler to the point where they are underlevelled and underfarmed.

[Sylvanas]

So you don't like the mode but you've only played 1 game on the mode and already had a predisposition to disliking it without playing it?

Saw that coming. You can have a predisposition to not liking something when you know exactly what that thing represents in advance. It's not like playing it against my will would make me find out about anything I don't already know about. There are plenty of dota/lod modes that you don't need to play to know they shouldn't be added to bots. I almost just joined one, just so I could ask the other players there what they think of this new mode, but I ended up joining arem instead, since you know, I like random heroes.

i like the new ideas coming out for the modes, and this mode is indeed interesting, but the most entertaining and prefered mode on my personal opinion is sd , itll be great to have it as a secondary option, but prioritize the original game mode this is why we prefer ent over other hosting servers cheers
edit: just read this is the wrong thread, however its all about the same, i agree with Sylvanas to revert the mode to SD

Lobby vote to change sd into md would be reasonable, with sd staying as the default mode. You can vote to switch arem games to rdem or sdem as it is and it often works when someone starts a vote.

The whole point of this was to balance out some of the overpowered combos and make the game less about luck and more about skill.

As to the -FN part, it's not hard to gank someone in the jungle as they are completely exposed for the first 5 minutes of the game. 1 person with a stun can usually go harass the jungler to the point where they are underlevelled and underfarmed.

You want to sacrifice randomness for the sake of more balance, when the opposite makes more sense given what lod stands for. Take ap and ar in dota. Ap is about everyone getting the heroes they want and forming the teams they want with them. Ar is about being given random heroes and making the best out of the hand they're dealt. I think lod and the people that play it are much more aligned with ar and what it represents, meaning sd should still remain the preferred mode.

Md could also be viewed as a way for stacked teams to further secure their wins. If someone plays in a team with burnt and ren.k 75% of the time, what's going to stop them from winning besides drafts? Oh, what did those 2 vote for in your previous suggestion thread?

About -fn, a level 1 stun from a level 1-2 hero's mana pool isn't going to harm a level 2-3 jungler much, not to mention the same can be done in dota. The fact remains that lod junglers get a huge exp advantage over dota junglers and I still don't see why.

[CheW]

I just don't see any reason that I personally think is a valid reason to dislike MD. The only 2 arguments against it on this thread are "I want better rng than other people" and "I want random heroes", even though you still get 20 random heroes.

[Happiness]

I just don't see any reason that I personally think is a valid reason to dislike MD. The only 2 arguments against it on this thread are "I want better rng than other people" and "I want random heroes", even though you still get 20 random heroes.

i dont dislike md, and ive been playing it lately a lot (forcefully heh) game has crashed like 3 times in the past 2 days and considering im only 1 player reporting it here, im sure theere have been plenty more.. game mode is good and it should stay, but make it as a vote option, or make another bot do you need cd keys for the extra bot? i got spare a couple

[Sylvanas]

I just don't see any reason that I personally think is a valid reason to dislike MD. The only 2 arguments against it on this thread are "I want better rng than other people" and "I want random heroes", even though you still get 20 random heroes.

You're dumbing it down, but those could be arguments for adding an ar/arem bot, if there wasn't one. Since there is one, they're valid and there's a demand for them (even more so now that lod is quickly turning into shit). Again, as far as lod is concerned, if you can pick only one mode, it should be sd.

I found the thread that made us deal with the terrible -fn for the past year. I only see 2 people who were actually asking for it, while the rest of the posts seem to be mostly about wondering what the current modes are and where it could be fitted in there. I feel like any mode change suggestion that doesn't drastically alter the game would be quickly accepted here unless there's a quick backlash from within the forum, which is unlikely to happen, hence this thread. Few people are demanding these, but it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't care.

I just don't see any reason that I personally think is a valid reason to dislike MD. The only 2 arguments against it on this thread are "I want better rng than other people" and "I want random heroes", even though you still get 20 random heroes.

i dont dislike md, and ive been playing it lately a lot (forcefully heh) game has crashed like 3 times in the past 2 days and considering im only 1 player reporting it here, im sure theere have been plenty more.. game mode is good and it should stay, but make it as a vote option, or make another bot do you need cd keys for the extra bot? i got spare a couple

I don't think there are enough players to have two active bots. Sd with the option to vote for md for dick measuring contests is probably the best thing to do.

Edit: On the other hand, I would suggest leaving two bots, one with each mode, for a while, for a more effective trial. Whichever one gets the most games stays.

[CheW]

I'm still not seeing any other reasons other than "I want better RNG" or "I want random heroes". I'm trying to look at the pros and cons of having MD instead of SD and, to me, the pros outweigh those feeble arguments by a landslide. Comparing this to AR on DotA is a joke. DotA heroes are actually relatively balanced when compared to each other. Drafts in LoD are not.

[Sylvanas]

I'm still not seeing any other reasons other than "I want better RNG" or "I want random heroes". I'm trying to look at the pros and cons of having MD instead of SD and, to me, the pros outweigh those feeble arguments by a landslide. Comparing this to AR on DotA is a joke. DotA heroes are actually relatively balanced when compared to each other. Drafts in LoD are not.

Dota heroes are relatively balanced, but random combinations of 5 of them are not, at all. Even less so in em, which favors item-dependent heroes. The thing is, it doesn't even matter. Individual games aren't balanced and aren't meant to be. Multiple games and overall performance are. The thing with randomization is that it evens out in the long run. You can't always have the shittier or better draft, you get some of each and adapt to it. Some games are hard, some are easy, all games put together are exactly as hard or easy as how good you and your teams are versus the other teams. That's the only way it should go.

Your only argument is "more balance" in this environment where the outcome of most games is already decided in lobby. At least the random factor shakes that a bit.

[CheW]

Individual games aren't meant to be balanced? Lol. Don't know how much more balanced you can get than MD. "all games put together are exactly as hard or easy as how good you and your teams are versus the other teams." MD solves that for every single game. Now the game requires skill instead of small skill and luck. You are still neglecting the fact that not everyone is going to pick the exact same build. Sure some skills will pop up and have doubles of like noobs that go rearm + phantasm, but at least there is one on each side so its balanced.

[Sylvanas]

Individual games aren't meant to be balanced? Lol. Don't know how much more balanced you can get than MD. "all games put together are exactly as hard or easy as how good you and your teams are versus the other teams." MD solves that for every single game. Now the game requires skill instead of small skill and luck. You are still neglecting the fact that not everyone is going to pick the exact same build. Sure some skills will pop up and have doubles of like noobs that go rearm + phantasm, but at least there is one on each side so its balanced.

Ar exists because not everyone wants the game to be balanced at the detriment of variety. Variety is the whole reason lod exists. Top tier builds will inevitably get doubled up no matter how much you deny it, which is fair, but boring. There's no way in hell anyone will random mc wrath and the likes without his evil twin popping up in the other team. Is it a way to even the teams? Sure. But I hugely doubt that this is what players want.