Legion TD

[Jabba41]

but the point of this topic is to evaluate the impact and how powerful it is, you can't isolate the issue then @kiwi and have to see the game and how it's played as a whole.
and regarding the spam uryn is right, so the sole spamming issue isn't weighting much as we allow merge builds and the as usage that comes along with it.

[Stiff_Maistar]

Im all for having the new rule. In the last AS topic (Hazard had linked it before) i made two replays on showing the impact.
It can have a small-big impact on early lvl if your lucky. It can have a big impact on boss lvls, and kraken/demon because the antistuck can cancel their attack animation so they take a pause, and make them select a new target. So on lvl 15, you can have a tank unit take 3 shots from demonhunter, antistuck him and then the demon hunter will swap targets so that your unit dont die and can still deal dmg.

To sum things up:
Seeing as we got this rule anti-stuck: "Cannot be used on creeps and sends that are attacking the king."
The community acknowledge that anti-stuck on creeps and sends does have an impact. The rule should therefor be extended to apply for towers aswell.

[KiwiLeKiller]

I get your point. You are right in a certain way in my opinion, but the difference between antistuck in a cross/merge build, compared to antistuck in a solo lane is that in a cross/merge build, you antistuck your units and you success (or fail) to antistuck them, but no matter what, you won't be repetitively using it all level long, while in a solo lane, you antistuck units from the very first second and you can spam it all level long to have a maximum effect.

But this is only my opinion, maybe I'm wrong ^^

[Uryn]

I figured out recently that antistuck is even more op when used on bosses. It freezes them for about 2-3 seconds

Sorry but this is just wrong, there is no way you can make bosses stuck for that long with antistuck. I would really like to see the replay of this.
And the antistuck spam in cross/merge is pretty much the same amount.

So my opinion is that if you change this you have to make antistuck rules as they are on 1200+ and ban cross/merge as well.

[elokiller]

can you guys provide videos where you show the impact of antistuck? Cause most of your "arguments" seem to be made-up.

You can for example make sure you never leak lvl 4 with 420 engi (or even 390).

I figured out recently that antistuck is even more op when used on bosses. It freezes them for about 2-3 seconds, and god knows that freezing a boss for 2-3 seconds is super abusive and can get you from a horrible spawn to a decent spawn in no time, or from a decent spawn to a perfect spawn.

not true

So on lvl 15, you can have a tank unit take 3 shots from demonhunter, antistuck him and then the demon hunter will swap targets so that your unit dont die and can still deal dmg.

definitely not true.

[DrChemba]

What i was saying is

For example you can do better with a solo alchemist against warr etc , 15 leaks against warr vs 3 leaks against warr is no small impact .A spawn with a good t1 has much higher chance to hold 3 with AS , also boss levels as Kiwi said . Many more examples almost on any build

So AS on creeps/sends will either

1 > have minimal to no impact
Or
2 > have a small impact in your favour helping you kill a couple extra creeps
Or
3 > have a big impact in your favour making a boss delay , killing more units on a warrior send or early level sends , making the demon stay behind etc

But it will never have a negative impact !



Stealing creeps or building cross has some skill + co-ordination + RISK
Antistuck on creeps/sends on the other hand is ZERO skill and NO negative effects or risk
Hence may have a huge and unfair impact on the game

[Uryn]

For example you can do better with a solo alchemist against warr etc , 15 leaks against warr vs 3 leaks against warr is no small impact.

Thats true that is no small impact. But this is not even close to what you cant do with antistuck. So it doesnt matter if 15 vs 3 leaks is small impact or not.

[DrChemba]

@Uryn

Antistuck on towers is a different issue , since you were talking about cross/merge
I think this discussion focuses on use of Antistuck on creeps/sends

So you think it has a low impact ? Or high impact ?
And in both cases it shouldn't be a problem for anyone if not allowed ?

[DrChemba]

@elokiller

A example you can try

Level 1 warriors against a ygg

Without Antistuck
A very low chance to hold
A high chance to leak 3-5 units
A low chance to leak 10+

With Antistuck (ygg stays at wall and does not get surrounded )
A high chance to hold
A low chance to leak 3-5 units
A very low chance to leak 10+

As i said in my above post , it is not a 100% it will work this way but a high chance with no risk no skill

[elokiller]

not denying that it can have a small impact.. but its definitely exaggerated in this thread here.

[Uryn]

@Uryn
So you think it has a low impact ? Or high impact ?
And in both cases it shouldn't be a problem for anyone if not allowed ?

It has a very low impact, and its 1 fun thing to do on mega because you can try to slightly underbuild levels. Mega always was a bot where you can abuse things that are possible on this map and must be banned on more competetive play. I just don't see a reason to limit things like this.

[HodoR_]

Let's be real here, there are a LOT of new players in mega that have no clue about the rules. IMO adding a new degree of complexity to this AS rule would just make things chaotic: I can see a lot of people reporting for AS abuse, a lot of people reporting for lying about rules, etc.

Also I think forbidding AS for cross builds is silly (as someone mentioned earlier), since it would pretty much render it useless. It wouldn't be hard for instance, to send a BO on lvl 4 in order to quickly kill delays and miss one whole lane. Same thing goes for lvl 20 with greater impact (teleport bug)

[Stiff_Maistar]

@Elokiller have you tested it before claiming its not true? Since in the last AS thread i posted two replays showing that it is true.
I tested it on the new version, and it still happends to both demon/kraken and bosses. On the level 10 its easier to do it than lvl 20.

[Xion]

I'm playing on mega for many years and I have no idea why this should get changed now. As I see it the players who want this changed are mainly playing 1200+ but this kind of things like antistucking, crossing etc. are fun things that many players enjoy.
The impact of this antistuck is much smaller than all other things that are allowed on mega and banned on 1200+ bot.
Thats why I would keep the rules as they are and deny this request.

[elokiller]

@Elokiller have you tested it before claiming its not true? Since in the last AS thread i posted two replays showing that it is true.
I tested it on the new version, and it still happends to both demon/kraken and bosses. On the level 10 its easier to do it than lvl 20.

I didnt, but I think you should show us a replay or video to prove your point.