2 broken things in ID

[Lynx]

1. Wallwalking, you can essentially escape the titan forever if you are skilled enough. There is no cost to wallwalking. Suggestion: Canceling structures that cost lumber doesn't refund 100% of the cost. For example building a wall for 50 lumber and canceling returns like 30 lumber or building a merchant for 2500 lumber and 45g returns 2500 lumber and 45g.

2. Builders scouting the map with unconstructed buildings all over the map. Unconstructed buildings should have like 100 vision range. It's broken to enable builders essentially MH if they cancel buildings as soon as titan comes close to it.

[Remixer]

1. Wall walking is highly controversial and it is indeed possible to add a cost for it.

2. This is addressed generally in the on-going scouting update.

[Burn]

I agree with the unbuilt walls nerf, if all builders were co-ordinated enough, the whole map could be walled up with unbuilt walls within seconds. Even just one guy with good map awareness can do this without feeding much.

Wall walking is also one of the most fun part of ID, so nerfing that would be disastrous for the game. Also, iirc, Neco said that the cost for cancelling buildings would be global, so it'd apply for merchants, ARC, and other high cost buildings. I've said this before, but making it easier for titan to kill builders will make golding harder and make wall walking riskier. There are already some items that will mess up a wall walker like ethereal mirror, but that's pretty expensive right now. Maybe a new item that is a consumable that prevents you from building walls for 5 seconds.

-Burn

[Lynx]

No I agree with you about wallwalking being one of the most fun things in ID, one of the most broken ones as well. Too bad cancel cost would be global.

[Remixer]

No I agree with you about wallwalking being one of the most fun things in ID, one of the most broken ones as well. Too bad cancel cost would be global.

There is a work-around to the global costs, but global costs might cause problems in some not wall walk scenarios. I can think of a few items that can be purchased for less gold than Ethereal mirror and with more functiobality against wall walking than a healing ward.

[Lynx]

Honestly I would never use a regular wall to stop someone wall walk, it is way too unreliable to spend 5g on. Best anti wallwalk is summonables Sypherious' water elementals or demonicus' scouting ghost.

[Fate-]

My wall walking is sub par personally but the whole unbuilt wall mechanic is pretty over powered. I'm sure we all remember IH games where we would wall the titan out with unbuilt walls and just keep building more and more. I can even do it by myself in pubs.

+1

[ShadowZz]

I think I just had a heart attack.
Just out of curiosity.... Everyone agrees wall-walking is "fun" (debatable but honestly just seeing Lynx say that wall-walking is broken almost made me think I'd woken up in another reality < 3).

@Lynx solution affects too many other things, considering it would be the super minority of cases where the cost would be punishing wall-walking as intended. Also, the workaround would probably cause more problems than it solves (as is the way with Wc3 World Editor workarounds).

@Burn solution would be again affecting a ton of other stuff (the global health range of all builders) instead of what it is intended to punish.

Another solution: Why not punish players for being bad at wall walking, as opposed to simply punishing them for doing it? Remove it from the game and add it back as an actual building intended for wall-walking to every builder that is currently able to wall-walk. Just put the cost of the building as 2g (cost is irrelevant so don't get stuck on 1g vs 2g vs 5g etc...), so that the only time you get punished for wall-walking is if you mess up. There are not many occasions while wall-walking, that finishing a building is a good idea, or not just you messing up. In those circumstances, you will be charged and in the event that the wall is intentional, in those circumstances, where you need that wall, you would be dead or you wouldn't need the wall. This would move wall-walking from being a thing used mostly for trolling a titan, to a thing that is actually only used to prevent someone from dying (because everyone fucks up when wall-walking, even the best).

Side-Note: @Lynx @Burn I'm not here to argue, take like 50 chill pills and be gentle : )

[Remixer]

Another solution: Why not punish players for being bad at wall walking, as opposed to simply punishing them for doing it? Remove it from the game and add it back as an actual building intended for wall-walking to every builder that is currently able to wall-walk. Just put the cost of the building as 2g (cost is irrelevant so don't get stuck on 1g vs 2g vs 5g etc...), so that the only time you get punished for wall-walking is if you mess up. There are not many occasions while wall-walking, that finishing a building is a good idea, or not just you messing up. In those circumstances, you will be charged and in the event that the wall is intentional, in those circumstances, where you need that wall, you would be dead or you wouldn't need the wall. This would move wall-walking from being a thing used mostly for trolling a titan, to a thing that is actually only used to prevent someone from dying (because everyone fucks up when wall-walking, even the best).

What would prevent them from using the regular walls? A same unit cannot have "wall walkable" structures and "non-wall walkable" structures. Sadly there Warcraft 3 limits our options. But I am fairly sure that I can solve the wall walking issue with itemisation.

[ShadowZz]

@Remixer Good point, forgot the Wc3 limits... The bane of your existence....

[Sytec270]

Why touch wall walking at all ? If titan cant play its his fault.

[Lynx]

Tbh the only real solution for wallwalking would be my suggestion, maybe theres some other nice way to make it cost something to do it but wallwalking is a core feature of this game so removing it or tampering with it too much is stupid.

[TooNoobForU]

broken titan
https://imgur.com/a/TXYGm

https://entgaming.net/customstats/islan ... /10052619/
welcome to 2 hour titan game. stall!!!!

[FollowingPath]

^
Best movie 2017

[Dr_CoolHaus]

If you want to solve those two issues, the only possible way I see is to completely remove human and orc style building and just make every builder have undead style summon.

No more wallwalking and no more cancelling unbuilt walls.