[POLL] What races do you think need balance?

[Beliar[Horror]]

Hi all,

I need information and comments from all players of map for keep good work and improvement, this is a poll, vote it and post a comment with the reasons of why should get fix/buffed.

Thanks all.

[Jonxx]

Voted for Aqua Summoner. Once you finally get to H2O it pretty much trivializes whole game, even on insane. On the other hand from same race Makrura Deepseer is a bit on weak side, its spell buff only lasts 10 seconds, so it's tedious to recast it manually (for comparison shaman bloodlust is 30s,) and it's pretty weak buff (10% dmg) too. Tower itself isn't very useful too for how much it costs, even early. You can make it, but why, when it's more efficient to just drop another h2o and don't bother to cast anything.

Just my thoughts from today's game, when I've played as Aqua. Would be great to make it so you need to use both towers for them to be about as efficient as they're now.

@Edit Also Skull's tier 1 (archer) was hit a little too hard, other than that it's in really good spot.

[Slomosapien]

Hi all,

I need information and comments from all players of map for keep good work and improvement, this is a poll, vote it and post a comment with the reasons of why should get fix/buffed.

Thanks all.

Might have just been the revenant level (18 i think), but the ultimate for beam race did not perform well at all. Also, the Red Dragon flying level killed more than half the players. Might be too strong.

[Cavo]

I voted for Clouds. The idea was good, but the pricing is awful. Since you can't sell back the lower tier turrets, you end up losing so much gold. So you have to pay 1,010 gold for the final Hurricane. And it is nowhere near good enough to cost 1,010 gold. Need to have the costs reduced all along the way until it gets down to 750-800 imo.

[Jonxx]

Ok, so first of all a question. Around what difficulty should the map be balanced? Imo mostly around hard, but insane should still be possible with most races if you play correctly.

On hard it's not really an issue, but on insane unless you get race with cheap mazing tier 1 tower (wolf,orcs,humans,starcraft etc) or one of races that simply have very good early towers (Warden comes to mind with Seal and Warthog, or Tank, even with nerf it's still good in early game) it's pretty hard to start. So, one thing I've been thinking is to reduce cost of tier 1's across the board for races that have troubles. Even just reducing cost by 1-2g would be enough for many imo. Some might need a bit more adjusting but you get my idea. In the end this would allow players to better play around with gold to find efficient start setup.

Another thing is that many races lack proper ultimate tower, many have last tower in 400-500 gold range, and while decent at first those fall off really quickly. Some ultimate towers also have no splash, while their singletarget dps/utility isn't even that good. Those races either need slight buff to those towers, or (imo much preferable idea) give those races extra tower in 700-800g range.

Please tell me your thoughts.

[sfo]

I voted for Orc Peon race. Why? because there's about 3 towers that need fixing such as orc raider, kodo beast, and serpant ward.

1. For orc raider tower that's 120g, the siege type is good, but there's no AOE effect. It needs to have a AOE effect (same as war strategist's 180g knight tower). It will benefit players who choose/get this race based off diffculty.

2. For the kodo beast tower, it needs the command aura increased from 30% to like 50% which will spread to all the allied towers based on whoever gets this race on either all-pick mode or all-random mode.

3. For serpant ward tower, the damage on this tower needs to be increased from 375 to like 1,000 with chaos effect. And if possible, the gold cost should be reduced from 575 to 500 (to avoid being leaked either mid game or late game levels).

[Jonxx]

Orcs are really op supportive race imo. Enables most races that are weak early and strong medium-late game even in insane. They'd be godly even solo if not for their ultimate tower, which is on the weak side.

1. They're very cheap, they actually have splash, and their dps is really, really good, u can spam them, add shaman or two (need to manually cast tho) and finally sell few of them for ultimate tower around lvl 13. They could've use to get slightly larger range, like (150-200) so they're easier to place vs air. But overall one of most cost/efficient tier 4 towers in game.
2. They're fine, the range could be slightly bigger, and cost slightly lower but as it is now, but the tower even now is worth its cost... after you get ultimate tower first.
3. Good example of what I've mentioned in my other post, tower itself isn't THAT bad for its cost (should probably be cheaper though), great vs air, but it falls of too quickly, and you need to use other race ultimate tower or you will lose.

Summarizing very cheap, strong mazing tower, dmg aura+ shaman attack speed, good tier 2 that kills early waves and first air easily, great tier 4 unit that enables you to get to mid-game easily.

This also poses question, should solo races be good enough to win the game? Or should the balance be around races working together?

PS. Orcs players. Please stop making crazy long mazes just because you have cheap mazing unit. It's not worth it without long range dps. Thank you.

[Beliar[Horror]]

Orcs are really op supportive race imo. Enables most races that are weak early and strong medium-late game even in insane. They'd be godly even solo if not for their ultimate tower, which is on the weak side.

1. They're very cheap, they actually have splash, and their dps is really, really good, u can spam them, add shaman or two (need to manually cast tho) and finally sell few of them for ultimate tower around lvl 13. They could've use to get slightly larger range, like (150-200) so they're easier to place vs air. But overall one of most cost/efficient tier 4 towers in game.
2. They're fine, the range could be slightly bigger, and cost slightly lower but as it is now, but the tower even now is worth its cost... after you get ultimate tower first.
3. Good example of what I've mentioned in my other post, tower itself isn't THAT bad for its cost (should probably be cheaper though), great vs air, but it falls of too quickly, and you need to use other race ultimate tower or you will lose.

Summarizing very cheap, strong mazing tower, dmg aura+ shaman attack speed, good tier 2 that kills early waves and first air easily, great tier 4 unit that enables you to get to mid-game easily.

This also poses question, should solo races be good enough to win the game? Or should the balance be around races working together?

PS. Orcs players. Please stop making crazy long mazes just because you have cheap mazing unit. It's not worth it without long range dps. Thank you.

This also poses question, should solo races be good enough to win the game? Or should the balance be around races working together?


This is a very good question, I'm balancing the classes not for just win the game, I'm balancing for a balance with other races.

My last new race "Beam" is not enough for win only the game and I'm know it, it has really good start but in mid game and late game leaks, so you will need another race.

Playing alone with one race is boring and if you follow this philosophy at lvl 15 another piece of wood was useless because with ur main race u can play whole game.

So this is the point, some races are not prepared to playing alone and you will need another one, thats the difficulty. Some races are too strong and you can win the game with them but this will not mean all races will like them.

[MrStende]

1: It is pointless with a difficulty that is un-winnable.
2: All races must be able to survive alone until lvl 15 on all difficulties.
3: Either all races must be able to win the game on all difficulties or any two races together. And making a match where any two races together can always win on all difficulties sounds pretty much impossible to me, so I would say the best focus is to make all races be able to win solo.
Whats your opinion on this?

[Beliar[Horror]]

1: It is pointless with a difficulty that is un-winnable.
2: All races must be able to survive alone until lvl 15 on all difficulties.
3: Either all races must be able to win the game on all difficulties or any two races together. And making a match where any two races together can always win on all difficulties sounds pretty much impossible to me, so I would say the best focus is to make all races be able to win solo.
Whats your opinion on this?

1. There are some videos on YouTube on impossible mode.
2. All races survive alone until 15.
3. I did a comment above this about this point.

If you make a race that can win alone and in all difficulties, thats overpowered. What will happen to that race that passes the impossible mode well in easy mode? The answer is boring, you know that you will win with that race and its difficulty is zero.

Impossible mode isn't for begginers or normal players, you must be skilled and know the mechanics of game and know nice race combos for maximize ur progress.

The game is focused to build together with other races, not focusing one and will keep continue this, in the next releases this philosophy will be more focused when be able buy wood and fusion races.

[LightningZLaser]

Alchemist: Poison doesn't work on towers beyond the first tower because of splash. Splash and poison don't work together, so change it to a frost attack instead (with a poison symbol for the debuff).

Alpha Wolf: Fenrir is a little too overpowered tbh. Maybe make gold cost 600 instead of 500. (remember to update sell gold value)

Archaeologist: Needs a little buff for early towers. Maybe increase range of ulti tower to 900.

VN: Splash also doesn't work with multishot on Viet, so remove splash. Also maybe increase it's attack speed by a little.

Chair: Also very weak, I might have overnerfed it a little last time.

Night Elf: Needs more dmg for the short range on mid-tier towers.

Warden: Just remove locust swarm skill from Great Big Wolf. It only causes lag and is already powerful enough without it.

[kunkka]

Firebat needs a nerf lol

[LightningZLaser]

Firebat needs a nerf lol

I think Firebat is fine, because it's only Piercing damage. It also makes up for the extremely weak first tower. Also, Zerg Queen isn't that a good ultimate tower. Maybe reduce the 300 range to melee.