Smurf Accounts

[brent]

Initially posted in "Complaints" but was rejected.

This is from my viewpoint, just because that is the easiest way for me to explain this problem.

When I join a DOTA game, I generally like to check !scores just to see what type of game I'm getting into. For a couple of reasons:

1) If I have the highest ELO, then I'll probably try to take middle lane, as I think middle lane gives the best advantage to the best skilled player. Yes, I understand ELO does not necessarily mean skill, but it is the best proxy I have available.
2) If I am not the highest ELO, but there are several low ELO players on my team, then I will try to avoid one of the lower ELO players from calling middle. I will give right of first refusal to the high ELO player, as I feel that gives the team the best chance of winning.
3) I suppose for my own sake, I like to know the general level of play of the game. For example, I play AREM, and if I am selected Mortred, in a lower ELO game I may choose Mask of Madness, but in a higher ELO game, I would go Helm of the Dominator.

Lately (in the past ~3 months), I have noticed many new accounts, either with ELO precisely 1000.00 (0 wins, 0 losses; 0/0), or, with very few games, and a very high win/loss ratio (say 5/1, 12/3, or 24/8). My assertion is these players are "smurf" accounts. The players behind these accounts have a different account, their real account, with their real statistics. Most likely their ELO is 1300, 1500, or even 1700+.

Very rarely does this new player do poorly. This is unfair to the regular DOTA player. We deserve to have our ELO adjusted based on the true skill level of our teammates and opponents. We deserve to know the skill level of our teammates and opponents.

This is about a fair and equitable ELO system. This is affecting the enjoyment of the game for everyone else. I personally am OK playing a lopsided DOTA game with +25 ELO for a win and -5 ELO for a loss, but I am really upset when a +10 / -20 game is lopsided THE OTHER WAY because of a new account being played by a dominant player.

These "smurf" accounts are detrimental to the game, and there needs to be negative repercussions when this occurs. This is warping and negating the ELO system, which is the motivation for players to continue playing and advance.

For your consideration
-brent

[nitromon]

I'm one of those player with many accounts. The mods here are well aware of it since I've mentioned it before. I don't even have a "main" account. The reason is because not everyone fully appreciate the ELO system as we play for fun, not necessarily overly competitiveness which is what leads to the every well-known toxic DOTA environment.

There are still times, I lose my cool, but when I do, I take a time out from playing b/c what is the whole point of playing if we're just going to get angry? I've had games where I've won, sometimes big wins, but I don't feel any pleasure in the games and felt ashamed of how I behaved in the game. Then there are games were I've lost, sometimes big, but I had a lot of fun.

People play for different reasons, you can't expect everyone to be super competitive. That's why there are tournaments and league games.

I switch accounts pretty much after each game. No, I don't create a new one after each game, I simply switch to another one. Why? Because if I play back to back games, I am likely going to end up with some people from the previous game. I do not want to drag baggage from one game to another. I have games where I ended up in a heated argument with a teammate, then the next game we're on the same team again but he doesn't know it. We would start over and work together without any arguing towards winning the game. A lot of times, we'd even get along really well in the 2nd game. That's my perspective I like to keep on DOTA games. There are players who are really toxic, but most players are decent guys who just get carried away, like myself.

Another reason I don't care for the ELO system is simply because after your ELO gets to a certain point, it becomes pointless. Every game you join, people flood to your team b/c you have high elo. You join a game, all the noobs flood to your team and then expect you to do magic while they watch and dick around all game. I don't even play carries anymore, I prefer playing support that helps the team overall. There are some true overly talented players that can pretty much win any game on their own and their ELO reflects it. But DOTA is a team game and every revision makes it more and more team oriented. So most people with high elo got their ELO by being selective in which team they join and which games to play. It is a tedious task, and again, just makes the whole thing too serious, too competitive, and stressful.

When I join games, I usually check KDRs, they say a lot more than ELO. Anyone with around simply 1 KDR (means break even) I'd play on their team. I avoid feeders/ruiners. But the most important thing I look for is the assists. Low assists tells you this person is not a team player. Average assists should be around 8-10. Anyone with lower than that, I'd expect not to be a team player. If they have a high KDR with low assists, you know it is a KDR player and won't help the team. You may win, he may be really good, but if your opponent is a decent team with good teamwork, the odds are against you with those players on your team. I've lost plenty of 26-29 elo games where high ELO, high KDR team members refuse to work together.

Anyways, my 2 cents.

[WolfPackMama]

Just got my ass whooped by a 1000 freshly created account, when I was playing my main char (Wind) which is a sight to be seen and something to mean, losing 20 ELO simply due to the fact that I'm not resetting my acc every 15 games. Smurfing is an idiotic way to provide an unfair advantage. I'm okay for stats reset, after all, chances are I'll remember your name if you're good. But creating a blank account every time and then proceeding to drain others' stats is just nasty. I know that it's the same person I've encountered last week and the week before, because it's always the same char and the same build, same insults even. It's twisting up the whole meaning of "ranked" games; how am I expected to advance up the ladder if there's someone who permanently creates new accounts exclusively due to the fact of getting some twisted pleasure out of it?

As someone who's fluctuating from 1400 to 1600 elo, If I lose to a 1600, that's fair, that's about my skill level. If I lose to a 1200, that's also fair, and that's a nice surprise. But if I lose mid lane to a 1000, that's just retarded, from his side.

[CheW]

Smurfing is the funnest part about this game

[Burnt]

As someone who's fluctuating from 1400 to 1600 elo, If I lose to a 1600, that's fair, that's about my skill level. If I lose to a 1200, that's also fair, and that's a nice surprise. But if I lose mid lane to a 1000, that's just retarded, from his side.

There's something wrong here. Why would the retard be the one that's asswhooping but not the asswhooped?

[BiLyA]

As someone who's fluctuating from 1400 to 1600 elo, If I lose to a 1600, that's fair, that's about my skill level. If I lose to a 1200, that's also fair, and that's a nice surprise. But if I lose mid lane to a 1000, that's just retarded, from his side.

There's something wrong here. Why would the retard be the one that's asswhooping but not the asswhooped?

You're not getting the whole picture here. This guy, apheraz_lucent or whatever was proly like 800 elo with 0.7 kd or so before he stacks his way to 1200+ using smurf friends. Him losing mid to a 1000 elo is natural. As it is losing to 900 elo or 800

[BeerLord]

Now burnt normally I enjoy your input and your witty reparte, but that was uncalled for. She clearly said the situation is retarded, not the player, on either side of the ass whooping.

I think we have clarified here the ladder really has no meaning due in large part to the endless smurfing, which then makes me wonder why does anybody care about moving up on a broken ladder?

[BiLyA]

I think we have clarified here the ladder really has no meaning due in large part to the endless smurfing, which then makes me wonder why does anybody care about moving up on a broken ladder?

I guess for the same reason that a guy that went travels then battlefury and then radiance on 40mins tidehunter, missing all teamfights and ultying only 2 times in a 45 min game just to ks 100 hp enemy, ending 1-10 or so made a post to complain cuz smurfz and shiet ruin his elo.
Oh hai brent.

[Dhamma]

Most people don't care about ladder on ent anymore, haven't in years. So smurfing is fun, especially to the few ppl who do care. It's funny to get them all pissed off when they lose 25+ or get a first loss. XD Stackers never prosper.

Now it is entertaining building no loss / high kd/ high wl ratio accts, and top 10 accts. But mostly its just for fun or bragging rights (questionable).

[BeerLord]

He who plants feet on broken ladder wakes up next day with broken nuts.

[Burnt]

So smurfing is fun, especially to the few ppl who do care.

Unless the "pro" has built-in smurf detector in his brain and instantly dodges all smurfs within a millisecond

[brent]

My interpretation of these responses is "yes, we know smurfing is a problem, the ELO ranking system is broken, and has been broken for years."

I suppose if everyone is aware of this problem but doesn't want to fix it then so be it. I think it is detrimental to the DOTA experience but apparently that is inconsequential.

Hey this faucet has been broken for so long it's not worth fixing. People just need to stop expecting one that works, or wanting it to be repaired.

[Dhamma]

Unless the "pro" has built-in smurf detector in his brain and instantly dodges all smurfs within a millisecond

actually there are a few hardcore dodgers like that. Once in a while I have to make an acct with shit stats to snip those. Luckily they are mostly only stackers and end up losing on their own too. One of the biggest one of those is a geo player who actually stacks when picking this hero. Unlike edge, who is more like me and gets him to snip. Kind of pathetic

But this kind of brings me to another point of why i smurf. If I played on a main all the time, many high elo players will simply leave. At least when i smurf i can go on a team with shitty players and have a challenging game. Too many players with 1500+ elo have no balls and only stack.

[Sylvanas]

My interpretation of these responses is "yes, we know smurfing is a problem, the ELO ranking system is broken, and has been broken for years."

I suppose if everyone is aware of this problem but doesn't want to fix it then so be it. I think it is detrimental to the DOTA experience but apparently that is inconsequential.

Hey this faucet has been broken for so long it's not worth fixing. People just need to stop expecting one that works, or wanting it to be repaired.

You're right, most people are aware smurfs are a problem, but how do you suggest fixing that faucet? B.net doesn't restrict new accounts, do you expect that to change overnight? Or do you think ent should track down everyone who plays dota under more than one account per person and ban them? That's neither possible or reasonable. The faucet isn't broken, it wasn't made for this. It's not even a faucet, it's a pipe that spews chemicals and there you are, wondering what you could do to wash dishes with it.

Theoretically, everyone could agree to be fair with each other and make the system work, but when has that ever worked on a wide scale for humanity? This is why the ants are going to take over Earth.

[WolfPackMama]

Precisely why I'm swapping to in-house.
Once you get to a certain skill cap, there's only as much enjoyment and little to no improvement you can achieve.