2nd opinion

[nukid]

semifun fact:
the word fag origins from the middleages, fags where logs used to burn witches. occacionally gay people where used as these logs to light up the fire and be used instead.
so u might wanna reconsider this since halp wants vendeta to burn to death.
i vote for 5week bamm concidering this

[TinSoldier]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/346888431806447636/383496954027704332/1zx1ux.jpg

[Varg]

funfact:

if halp wouldnt be so cocky and try to ban vendeta he could play n chill this weekend lihl ^^

[dweiler]

First of all, the fact that I judged it excessive flaming was because we already warned him earlier that evening that he has to stop going after Vendeta, and we also gave him a warning to stop semi-flaming moderators. The same evening we warned him he went after Vendeta again and flamed again. Flaming someone again after he got warned to stop is excessive, and our rulebook clearly says this is 3 days unvouch. I am not sure why there is even a debate about that for some.

More importantly I find Halp's response here very telling. Instead of reflecting on his own actions, the only thing he does is taking it on others. Perhaps if you ask yourself questions like: could I have avoided this situation, is it fair to demand a mistake from moderators when I behaved like that, what can I do better next time, you show no insight at all in your own contribution to the unvouch and only whine about whether a moderator made a mistake with the duration of unvouch. Maybe if you paid a more intention to yourself instead of others, you may come different conclusions about your post blaming others. Also, you may be very stubborn and keep twisting and explaining everything in your advantage, you may feel really smart, but I promise you that your time in LIHL wil end very soon then, because you are really busy crossing the lines of what is acceptable. Take my advices and re-evaluate your own behavior and position.

[Zeratul]

Well this will be my last post (sorry for butting in again ^^):

@MickeyTheMousie Maybe it will come as a surprise (or not xd),but i've always had respect for your work as an LIHL Moderator (you and another one, who is no longer among the team aka Diablo) - You both usually tend to see the bigger picture, and be fair/reasonable and most cases get the best possible outcome/solution due to it, however i cant agree with how you're ruling here:

If you're gonna use Halp's "past/history", you might as well use vendeta's, and trust me - there's no "victim" in it: For all who remember bronx_ale/vendeta (and mudman) public brqs (This one might be the best example of it - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=84307 ), you'd know vendeta never flames, he joins same teams or instigates/provoke by maintaining a "formal" speech towards these members (as you saw in this game as well "dont get cocky and dont talk to me" followed by "im not talking to you" - Is this flaming? Nope, but if u know vendeta as I do, you'd know what were his intentions when he said it --> Go find more games where he acts this way towards members he doens't have a past with, and you'll notice the same as I do).

All in all:

If halp should have said fag? Nope, and im sure he already realized it by now (hopefully) that his choice of words havent been the best, and will work on that.
If halp "flamed" vendeta? hardly - if you're gonna consider a 1 time "fag" flaming (which was provoked by his ally), then something is wrong there: If Halp said "noob", or even "idiot" (something not as harsh as fag), would you have judged him the same way (honestly)?

Anyways, i hope you try checking the situation again, and at least re-consider the events that lead to it.

Note: In no way am i attempting to bash vendeta or anyone else, but try looking at the bigger picture and who is involved in these cases (and trust me, neither of them (halp/vendeta) are saints - it's safe to assume everyone knows that): The "fag" only came after Halp attempted to discuss/communicate with his team (including Vendeta who decided to provoke halp).

Once again, sorry for butting myself in, but had to at least say it thanks in advance and farewell

Hyo out

[dweiler]

@zeratul thanks for your opinion. Again, I unvouched him because we warned him to stop going after Vendeta and we warned him for semi-flaming the mods the same evening. That is just a total lack of respect and sense of playing in a league, if you then go on flaming the same person in game few hours after. Of course he needs an unvouch for that, and we have 3 days for excessive flaming. I did not unvouch him for using the word 'fag', I unvouched him for disregarding our warnings, flaming someone again that we warned him not to (on multiple occasions).

I don't intend to take all history in. Vendeta is behaving fine in LIHL so far, if Halp behaves like Vendeta there is no problem. I won't excuse someone for calling another a 'fag' a few hours after we warned him to stop using that kinda language and especially with Vendeta, because the other in the past also did some bad things. Get a warning to stop going after someone on multiple occasions -> you go after him -> you get unvouch. It's simple as that. And if he doesn't understand that and think it is fine how he acts, I will again predict him that he won't stay long in LIHL, because we have some standards if you play here.

[Vendeta]

@zeratul

Since u are, how u say it "butting in" so much, i have to respond to u.

U look to me like someone who got his feelings hurt 1,5 year a go or so, since u are pulling that old stuff back. Both mods and players in this community are aware of my history, and i still got accepted.

If u are already so active in ENT, and now even in Lihl section for some reason, u should have looked at my vouch application, and see how many people still support me.

I am already 3 months here, and i didnt have any problem so far. I am playing with people with who i had flame wars ages a go, tottaly normal, i have no problem turning a new leaf with anyone, and i did it with a lot of people.

But, what makes me different from halp and runescape a.k.a. mudman, is that so far i didnt have any complaint, report or ban. Only this rage report from halp. But those 2 already had bans in this league. Isnt that telling u something ?

Moderators are not looking into ent history, they are looking at lihl history, which u dont know. Halp already had complaints, this is his 2nd ban already, and he already had private talks with moderators, which again, u dont know.

When u deffend or attacking anyone, better first make sure that u know all the facts before u do so, because what u are presenting here is pure nonsense. I am sorry that u still holding grudges from past, whoever u are, but u should just do like most of the people - let it go.

Peace !

[Im_Halp]

@mickeythemousie you claim that I am not reflecting on my actions. Do i realy need to state that the use of the word fag was a poor choice? I mean seriously, i should not have to explain, that in hindsight, it was a poor choice of words.

Also, you claim that I went after vendeta, im sorry bud but u either lost your mind or your tunnel vision for vendeta is taking over. Did u even read Zeratuls post which included the chat log of the game? It is evident you didnt in your response.

We were on the same team and I spoke to him as a normal player until I was met with disdain and was shown complete disregard for my friendly behavior. ONLY THEN did I return that same attitude towards him.

And flaming, how do you even support this erroneous decision as flaming when I said one word to him. And how many people need to comment on here telling you the decision was incorrect for you to understand that it was so. At somepoint, since you seem to be intelligent, you should have realized that the you possibly judged the situation either too harshly or incorrect. It is not as though I simply attcked him out of nowhere as you claimed on the original request; if you check zeratuls post again you will notice clearly i didnt.

And you did warn me for spesking to moderators a certain way yes. However, warning me from that previous decision where I did nothing wrong is simply a farce. I dont understand how you can realize a mistske was made in offering the ban to me and then go on to conclude i was warned for not doing anything wrong. That simply does not make sense.

We have looked the game over again, and agree that it is Fanatismo who crossed the line. Sometimes it is hard to judge if someone else is joining in that/instigating or not. In this case, there is nothing that warrants an unvouch

I re-read your language here. This is the last warning, you can appeal an unvouch and state why you disagree et cetera, but it's really uncalled for to go talking with 'fucks' et cetera. If you happen to be in a spot like this again and you start talking to us like that, your appeal or request will be insta-denied

So how does that response become a warning to me to stop flaming other players? If you ask me that response, from you mick, is stating that you mods incorrectly banned me and that I should keep a more mannered approach in writing up ban appeals. I do not see anything stating that I flamed or that any excessive repercussions will be taken in the future.

Tl;dr: Im sorry for what I said and I should not have said it. I am going to be taking steps to try and prevent outbursts like such from continueing.

[Meshtar]

Friendly advice Halp, let this go and try to generally tone down everything for a while. Also I have seen no support from a single lihl player here, just from some 1200+ players which is all good and nice, but doesn't really hold any weight here. This ban was reasonable and all that they did was reasonable and mannered, they accepted your appeal just a few days before when they missread that chatlog, so you can see they have no problem with admitting it, if they make a mistake. Take some time off, go out relax and most of all ignore or dodge vendeta and you will be fine

[Im_Halp]

Friendly advice Halp, let this go and try to generally tone down everything for a while. Also I have seen no support from a single lihl player here, just from some 1200+ players which is all good and nice, but doesn't really hold any weight here. This ban was reasonable and all that they did was reasonable and mannered, they accepted your appeal just a few days before when they missread that chatlog, so you can see they have no problem with admitting it, if they make a mistake. Take some time off, go out relax and most of all ignore or dodge vendeta and you will be fine

So we have 1 ENT moderator, 1 ex mod (who is very good at looking at the situation as a whole without bias), 1 longtime lihl player ho is temporarily unvouched, ranz whomakes a joke of this, and tin who does the same. That seems like a good group of people who support me in thinking that the ban, either itself or the length, was not warranted considering the entire situation. So your statement is incorrect.

[dweiler]

Let me start off to remind you that you are on a permanent trial regarding your attitude/behaviour which can be determined at any given time through the moderation.We invited you into this league because we were convinced that you can adapt to the gamestyle and behave like a positive member to this community.In the little time that i was a moderator i have had several complaints, and every single one of them is about you. Only you. Im sure micki gets the same mails and direct mails since a longer time. So i am convinced this is an issue.
So this means a good portion of your fellow league members is tired of your behaviour. You can call that unfair, uncalled for or whatever you like, but it states a fact a good portion of people do not like how you behave here.You do not have to be best friends with everybody, but we demand that you can restrict yourself to a level where it is possible for you to be active and not be the center of drama. I am not saying everything of that is your fault and u can not defend yourself if u get attacked / provoked, but as i see it you fail to see that you at least have a good share in the drama surrounding your person. It does not come out of the blue that people report your behaviour.You should be smart enough to understand that somebody that is warned for so long for an issue will have to watch that issue very very closely. In your case, it is temper / level of speech.
Your solution to this can be very easy, focus on your own behaviour and not on other people. Your own behaviour and attitude towards EVERY person of the league should be your main focus, besides good gameplay of course. If you feel wronged, you can always speak to moderation about it, just keep a clean head and talk to us later. We are very willing to help you out.It is also not your concern how somebody else was banned for a similar case because we adjusted a new set of rules guideline and in that, mickis argumentation is to be understood and justified.One wrongdoing does not justify another one and you should trust micki that he is trying his best to judge fair and open.I do not understand how you can be arguing and openly complaining in discord lihl chat about mickis decision ( can copy if demanded for clarification) and expect him to have a huge patience for yourself. You will not see any moderation complaining about your argumentations/ interpretations of a situation in public and if you keep doing this it will be very hard to have patience for you.
Then you have the guts to call him biased because you do not like his decisions or his explanation

Also, you claim that I went after vendeta, im sorry bud but u either lost your mind or your tunnel vision for vendeta is taking over. Did u even read Zeratuls post which included the chat log of the game? It is evident you didnt in your response.
Just from that post what do you expect to happen next time ? How do you expect micki to take anything serious u are bringing forward to justify your view / actions in the future ?
Maybe your tunnel vision is quite active aswell ?Cause all i can see in your justifications is i did wrong, but person xyz wronged me first / wasnt punished for the same/ is. I will try to work on this topic but it comes off often enough and its the same issue. I will not do xyz and then u keep doing it again / do wrong in a similar way ? How many chances do you think you deserve to prove that you can stick to your own words ?
I fail to see any varrant if you get in the same situations over and over again and you do not do what is presented for you as a solution.


Also you clearly did not read what was written when u were unbanned. It does not say that you did not do anything wrong, it said you did not enough to warrant a ban. Clearly we deemed your behaviour not to be acceptable in general, but it wasnt enough based on the rules to ban you. So i admitted with mick my interpretation was 2 harsh and we granted your appeal. A few hours later you call us biased against you ? He just revesersed a decision i made to your benefit because he thought i was at fault. Now he is at fault in a very similar context because this time he judges you differently when you did smth and that makes him biased? ? You admit you did not do right so stop arguing about the punishment and work towards not getting punished again.It is not a matter of 3 days 24 h, no ban at all.
You will not have to worry about how long a ban is or how it should have been judged in your case when u are permanently unvouched because of your behaviour.
Look at yourself first, work on yourself, make a fair statement if you feel wronged and most importantly avoid situations that will get you in trouble. If it is worth for you to push your argumentation and your point of view ingame / in forum / in discordchat in a way that the mods and a good portion of the players deem not acceptable that is your choice. Dont complain then when we make ours after warning you so often.
If you cannot stop getting into this situations and you feel we are not giving you a fair chance to present youself just play lobbies you are very safe and maybe play only when you are extremly relaxed and calm for your own good.
I do not say all of this is your fault or is unprovoked, but you have to take responsibility for your own behaviour. With Vendeta it is a complicated case where none of you is innocent, so maybe it is just the best if you people try to dodge each other for your both benefits.
Most of Halp/ vende lobbies get toxic for other 6 persons in the game, and that is not an acceptable situation.
Next time you feel tilted maybe think is it worth for me to behave a way that will get me in trouble ? Because as i said we judge you harder because of your trial status and the complaints/ evidence reported to us during your time in lihl.
Consider this a wakeup warning, there will not be a second one. You are still in TRIAL; so prove yourself.If you cant, the fault is on you

[BoretkPanda]

if u bann people for "fag" u better dont look at my chatlogs

[dweiler]

if u bann people for "fag" u better dont look at my chatlogs

Come on, stop making this ridiculous posts. We explained like 5x already we did not ban for that. This just keeps going in circles if everyone comments without reading anything.

[dweiler]

Processing this. Your appeal will not be granted since we already unvouched you for flaming and we don't feel our message is really getting through to you. I am happy you see you will need to start acting differently, and we expect that of you after your unvouch. If you behave as we clearly told you by now how we we expect you to, there is no need for you to be in trouble anymore.