[LTD] [LOD] pele@europe.battle.net MAPHACK

[DongLildo]

Replay Link: all links are placed below along with detailed descriptions
Game Name: Legion TD Mega
Your Warcraft III Username: vAdeRk@europe.battle.net
Violator's Warcraft III Username: pele@europe.battle.net
Violated Rule(s): map hack
Time of Violation (in-game or replay): see below
Any further thoughts:

Lets start with some examples where pele did regular opening for units he got, and suddenly decided to place additional units, but only after enemy team sent warriors prior to level 1.
[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #25
Pele is yellow. He starts by doing standard infantry opening. Wisp, infantry, upgrade to pyro. In his team there are spawn (green), sea giant (orange), and alchemist (pink). Few seconds before lvl 1 started players from team west sent warriors. One moment after that, pele rushes to place landmine behind his pyro. Everyone knows that landmine cant help pyro to hold warriors on lvl 1 since pyro kills creeps with 1hit anyway. It can however help spawn to clear pele's leaked units on mid, because their hp is now reduced by landmine's aoe explosion. Why would someone add landmine to pyro in the last moment unless he knew about incoming warriors?

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #43
Pele starts with 2 skeletors, 1 bone warrior and wisp. Enough to hold lvl 1. Sudennly, as soon as enemy team started to send their warriors, pele adds another bone warrior. Intuition, luck or something else?

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #71
Another case of adding t1 units after enemy sent warriors, and than doing the same thing on lvl 3 when they decided to resend.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #59
Regular opening with 3 sprites. Enemy send warriors, moment latter pele places gnoll.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #14
Another case, little difficult to tell because suspicious action happened before enemy sent warriors. He (yellow) starts with knight + warlock, but shortly before lvl 1 started he added 3 more gnolls. I suspect he predicted warriors by observing enemy build, but he could not be sure they would send (they did in last moment). I don't have required software for detailed reply file inspection, but if I'm correct, he would have picked all 3 gnolls and keep them sellected so he can sell them in the last moment if no warriors are sent by the enemy team.

Here are some cases where he strongly opposes his teammate's call to send warriors, and some where he forces his team to send at the perfect opportunity.
[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #16
Pele (yellow) starts with phantoms. Green and orange both play engineers. Everyone in his team wisps in time. Pink suggests they should send warriors on lvl 1. Yellow instantly opposes that call claiming that he needs to send lvl 2, even though his team with 2 engis can benefit from slow game. At this moment, enemy team has: LoD (red), nm + ogre (teal), 2x turret + 2x peasant (blue), pyro + tuskar (purple). Estimated leak with warriors is 15-20 units with red on mid collecting them all. No warriors are sent.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #9
Once again phantoms for pele (red). This time however, he doesn't seem to need lvl 2 send. Instead he basically forces lvl 1 send without any response from his teammates by solo sending warrior. Enemy team has: 2x phantom (yellow), 3x turret (green), 1x alchemist (orange), knight + ogre (pink). Perfect opportunity to send on lvl 1. East leaks 49 units to the mid with 2 damaged turrets clearing some of it. 41 units leaked to the king.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #45
Enemy team is quite vulnerable on lvl 1. Pele tries to force his team to send and goes 2 warriors before his team even responded to his call. Unfortunately for him, his teammates fail to send in time.

Another obvious case of knowing what his opponents are doing.
[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #85
He plays with aquas. During lvl 2 he has 320 value (6 aquas and 1 ent) and uses all round gold to push to 4/1, places one more ent and holds lvl 3 with total of 340 value. Why is this strange? Well, enemy team haven't send on 1 nor 2 (they upped their king's regeneration and decided to go for level 7) and yet he so confidently pushed wood knowing 340 value will be enough to hold lvl 3.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #19
Maybe not the most obvious one but feel I should present it too. Pele is blue. Starting with eggsack, veteran and peevee. During lvl 1 he tries to push, but than he cancels the wisp shortly after enemy team sent 3 furbs.

While inspecting his replays I noticed that he personally NEVER calls for lvl 1 warriors send, unless the enemy team have bad or insufficient units. There are many players who like aggressive approach and are well known for frequent lvl 1 sends, but pele ONLY does in when his opponents aren't ready for it. Evidence I presented came from watching several of his latest replays and searching for string "warrs" in the chat log. I'm sure there are many more examples in his earlier games and I request that admins look into this case with more attention.

[Karils]

Going to review first to confirm the situations are as you stated them, deciding on this will come after complete review of the points you made.

#25 - Is as said, adds mine after enemy team sends warrs. Leaks anyway as mentioned.
#43 - adds bone warrior after enemy team sends warrs.
#71 - adds hatchlings after enemy team sends warrs. Adds hatchlings back again on 3 when enemies sent again
#59 - adds gnoll after enemy team sends warrs.
#14 - added his gnolls prior to a warr send, did NOT hover them as was questioned. Doesn't necessarily mean anything either way.

Others:

#16 - send 2 is pretty standard play for phantoms, not sure how to judge this.
#9 - chose to send warrs, again not sure how important that is, as you could find literally any player having a game calling warrs.
#45 - sends warrs without agreement from team, perhaps a bit more interesting than the prior two
#85 - I'd have agreed it were important IF he had waited to push until after the start of the round, but he had started pushing prior to 2 even ending so that perhaps detracts away from the importance of this one.
#19 - does cancel wisp after enemy starts 2 send


@donglildo With these checked and the potential for more evidence to be in other replays, I feel like it is both relevant and necessary to ask, what in particular provoked you to check into this player on suspicion of MH? I'm asking because I don't feel like it would be even considered that someone was utilizing MH simply from warr sends (at least not while in-game). For example, did any maphack warnings go off for fogclicks, any ghosting, etc?

Not to mention the spread of dates on the games and how many games you must've went through to find these. (49 games total in the timespan of games you use as evidence, with 10 used as evidence)

[DongLildo]

@karils, the reason I had to check this guy was #71. I was in that game and sometimes, when game is long enough and interesting enough I like to watch the replay and analyse other player's builds. I even analyse my own build in order to improve it. That's where I noticed red placing 3 additional t1 units to his 2 turrets and geomancer. I quickly rewinded that game and looked for timeline of events. That is where I saw him adding units once my team started to send warriors. Out of curiosity I went to his stats page, opened several links and searched for word "warrs" and "warriors" in the chatlog (not really hard or time consuming as it might seem). I just wanted to see If that behavior happened before and I was right. Found several cases of placing t1 units in last moment when his enemy team sent warriors, along with some other suspicious cases.

As I mentioned in the 1st post, I do not have a program for detecting fogclicks. I tried to use DotAReplay-v3.02c with Enemy_Click1.6.5 but it doesn't seem to work with lastest wc3 patch. If my understanding of game mechanics is correct, someone needs to ACTUALLY CLICK on the unit in the hidden part of the map in order to trigger a fogclick. What if someone who uses map hack doesn't click, and instead chooses to simply use arrow keys or mouse scroll in order to place his viewpoint over enemy units? What if someone simply observe minimap area where summoned units are placed prior to start of the level? How can such person ever get caught cheating if he is careful enough never to make a fogclick? Thats why I asked admins to look into his replays, analyse them and decide if he is a cheater, or is it just my suspicious nature that lead me to report him.

Also, #9 he called for warrs, his team didn't confirm the call when he sent his 1st warrior. Same case as #45.

[FalenGa]

Guys, please refrain from posting personal opinions and irrelevant comments, as it offers no contribution to the request, and it just serves to waste our time.

We do not take opinions into consideration, unless they come with evidence, or in a form of a review. In that case, a comment would be most welcome.

If you wish to discuss this topic, you can create a new one in the general discussions section, and link this one as a reference.
viewforum.php?f=13

Thank you.

[Karils]

@donglildo

Would you be so kind as to provide example games in which the player in question does NOT add t1s when no warriors are present? Without that information one could argue that this is simply his default play style, and he waits to add his t1s. I'm also asking because you made the claim that

but not on those games where there is no warrior threat.

implying you've checked others as well.

[DongLildo]

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #0
Single alchemist

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #99
2 turrets and 1 acolyte + 3/0 push. Enemy has ygg and spawn, thus cannot send warriors.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #63
1 rev 1 aco 1 eggasck and + 3/0 push. Never seen this build before and I think it is way too risky. Unless...

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #39
Single alchemist

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #32
Single pyro, no t1 (e.g. landmine) this time

Literally 5/10 from his most recent games. Other 5 he got lod or prisoners, one was single sea giant and another regular 3 sprites (without gnoll), din't think those 2 were obvious as five mentioned above.

Edit: watched wrong guy on #99. Sry for misinformation.

[ahols91]

Bump

Played a game with him, built t1 and sold right before lvl 1. They didnt warr. Just like all the other replays here for evidence.

[FalenGa]

You need to provide that replay for it to be actually counted as evidence, @ahols91 . Thanks.

[bezdak]

Played a game with him, built t1 and sold right before lvl 1. They didnt warr. Just like all the other replays here for evidence.

This comment is absolutely useless until you provide the game replay.

Gonna review this one when I get time and make a final decision, meanwhile feel free to post more suspicious replays. Every single one of them counts.

[bezdak]

Obvious Very suspicious Pretty suspicious Kinda suspicious A little suspicious Not suspicious

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #25
Pre-lvl 1: He adds a landmine 1 second before lvl after they send warrs, even tho a landmine does absolutely nothing with pyro. Considering they got only one potential holder being a spawn, this is extremely suspicious.
Pre-lvl 4: Adds an inf for 4, decides to sell it and builds a necro instead, even though 2 pyros hold. This all happens after west starts sending. Obvious.
Stopped watching here, just went through the chat quickly if there was any last-second call, didn't find anything checkworthy.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #43
Pre-lvl 1: Afaik the normal build is 4 skeles in total here, so I can understand adding that t1, however the timing was indeed a bit suspicious and it totally looked like he wanted to have 3 only. From the chat however it seems like he isn\t very experienced with a skele yolo. Hard to judge.
During lvl 1: He suggested to go for straight 7 while enemy has only yolo units and they had 3 pushers + ygg. Tiny bit suspicious.
Pre-5: After them sending, he stops his push and saves huge gold for 5, even though his team is super good 5, him including. Also getting flamed from a teammate,
on which he responds "they have so good push". Obvious.
Pre-7: Right after east obviously sending full, he asks blue if he can get 4 yggs. Even though he got told 1 more skele and he holds 8, so he can full push, he refuses, saves 223 gold and builds a polar for 7, even though he calls he wants to hold 10 and has nothing against 10. He rrolls into infantry after placing medusas pre-8. Pretty suspicious.
Pre-14: After 10 he kept being absolutely quiet, team had no plan. Until then the only suggestion was blue's "try 15". Right after east started their sending, he called 14-20. A little bit suspicious.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #71
Pre-1: Same thing with the t1s that would normally be unnecessary waste. 7 second before the round he builds full, meaning 3x hatchling. His team was super safe, so the last minute decision made no sense at all. Pretty suspicious.
During 1: He wants to straight 7 when east has 3x aqua 1x sui roll. This time west has 2x blaster so it makes more sense than the previous game, however still way too accurate to just let it go. A tiny bit suspicious.
Rest of the game was fine, after 10 he was completely quiet but it was an obvious 17 game, no calls needed.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #59
Pre-1: Builds 3 sprites right after the start, then afks until they send first warrs, then he adds a gnoll. In sprite build you never add a t1 cos u can't push 3/0 and u hold warrs most of the time. Absolutely nonsense call for a non-hacker with the perfect timing. Not to mention his team was super strong against warr. Extremely suspicious.
Pre-3: Instead of classic 5th sprite he did an infantry + 5 gnolls spam, which should do better for 3. West is of course re-sending 3 and his team has a nm. Kinda suspicious.
The rest was just default 14 game stuff.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #14
Pre-1: the whole building phase he seemed to think hard about his build. He first mde a knight, then decided to be safe and after a while added a lock, after another while he added 3 gnolls - he can't get a knight anyways and the best thing for lvl 2 would be an upped lock in this case. I'd do the same thing actually if I decided to do the safe build. Although the timing was again kinda funny, in this case it doesn't mean much. Not suspicious.
The rest of this game was just a pretty entertaining huge flame between the whole team, I don't think anybody payed attention to the actual game.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #16
Pre-1: He had a wanderer t2 so he couldn't risk the warr send either way. Most of the people wouldn't agree to warrs here. Not suspicious.
EDIT: I just realized he had a landmine, however I'll stay on not suspicious here either way - most players want to have the safest build possible.
Pre-5: Although it was pretty obvious they send 5 after scouting 2x engi, he still pushed at the start of 4 and cancelled the push right after the first furb on the west side. Very tiny bit of a suspicion with a timing and as well the fact that he could've added only an extra wanderer anyways.
Pre-15: He forced green to juice for 15 after west sent a lock. It was kinda to be epected but still, he seemed to be too confident about west sending 15, while until that time he was talking about 16 only. Little suspicious.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #9
Pre-1: He had a geo as his t2. Still pretty much forces a send, even though he was strictly refusing to risk with a bad t2 the previous game, while this time enemy is really awful against warrs. Pretty suspicious.
Game got drawn at lvl 2.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #45
Pre-1: Normally I'd say he was just greedy for a slow game as an engi, however he started to insist on warrs right after blue rebuilt his ents to a time stealer and he called 1 + resend 3 straight away, while 2 players from west were terrible 3. Also the early call was to 2 7 from pink, supported by oj. + the fact oj was 1/0. I will also mention the fact he went 140 engi, which was pretty damn safe considering west had 2x 1/0. Kinda suspicious.
Pre-3: He started to push really late, which alowed him to cancel the push right after west sent their first bo. He then built full, much more than needed with a usual engi build,
even added a t1 last 2 seconds. Extremely suspicious. Fun fact - his build was so terrible he still leaked 7 creeps + bo with 370 value.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #85
Pre-3: Overbuilds for 2 expecting 2-7 most likely, mainly because of them being 4x 1/0. When no 2 send, it was pretty obvious for him that they go straight 7. After mentioning of his teammate that he leaks hard to a send he answered him with an extreme confidence. Very suspicious.
Pre-5: His team has engi, sprite, aqua and ygg, east haven't sent yet. he still goes 500 aqua + 2 ents for 5. They are not sending. No leak, no information about their units, just a slow kill lvl 1 on 2 guys.. Kinda suspicious.

[ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #19
Pre-2: The whole time he seemed like he has no clue what he's doing, was selling and cancelling pushes. seemed to me he had no experience with this build, so he was changing his mind a lot. Not suspicious.
During 2: He calls blind 4, no questioning, high confidence. Enemy has pris, turret, ea, spawn. Pretty suspicious.
Pre-5: He confidently calls to wait for the leaks on 5, while pink being on 3 spawns. A little suspicious.

Randomly picked replays (watched only first 5 levels):
https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10167749
He starts pushing during lvl 1, instantly cancels after east starts sending. Pretty suspicious.

While inspecting his replays I noticed that he personally NEVER calls for lvl 1 warriors send, unless the enemy team have bad or insufficient units.

Can confirm this.

I've seen enough. User Pele banned for a year for map hacking. Good catch @DongLildo

[Quetra]

User dodged. TID: 126774