New ID Rules Edit

[Kappa]

Seems that some players want changes/clarification to the current rules and I would like to hear community feedback on this:

Old Rules:

Builders which have not yet died may not leave within the first 15 minutes, unless it has been explicitly stated by an observer that they are willing to take over your builder.

Titan may not leave within the first 15 minutes of spawning, unless Titan has picked and it has been explicitly stated by a builder that they are willing to take over titan, or at least 3 builders have already left or become observer.

Proposed Rule/Clarification:

Builders which have not yet died may not leave within the first 15 minutes of Titan spawning, unless it has been explicitly stated by an observer that they are willing to take over your builder, or at least 3 alive builders have already left the game or become an observer from not picking.

Titan may not leave within the first 15 minutes of spawning, unless it has been explicitly stated by another player that they are willing to take over Titan, or at least 3 alive builders have already left the game or become an observer from not picking.

Allows both Titan and Builders to leave after 3 players voluntarily leave the game. Also, clarifies what qualifies as a voluntary leaver.

Regardless if the suggested builder leaving rule exception is passed or not, I believe this edit should be passed for clarification purposes on Titan leaving.

, or at least 3 alive builders have already left the game or become an observer from not picking.

Please comment on the decision to allow builders to leave when the Titan can. The previous thinking was voluntary builder leaving mostly affected Titan and not builders. Therefore, only Titan could leave if at least 3 alive builders have already left the game or become an observer from not picking. This would be changed with this suggestion.

[Cardflip]

I still am against having the 15 minute rule for builders, but this is a step in the right direction. Builders should be able to leave whenever the Titan can.

[morbellix]

Good change, thank you.

[Merex]

Not necessary in my opinion. Builder leaving has been an issue of the past and with the new rules in place, it'll provide enough of a stance for the ENT staff to enforce such and lessen the situation, slowly but surely. Adding more exceptions, especially for the community of ID, will cause more complications than benefit.

Also important to note this can potentially cause misinterpretations for the rule as builders are already allowed to leave under 2 existing circumstances (death, observers taking over).

!against this change.

[Yarragon]

Avion, if you don't want to clarify the new rules, I can promise you MANY more ban requests like the one I just posted will show up.

What happens to the community when entire lobbies are getting banned because of a silly lack of clarification and poor wording on your end?

Yes, leaving has been an issue... but if you make sure it's understoodleaving is NOT ok for a set amount of time, OR that three people may be banned if they decide to leave the game, then it should no longer be an issue.

Edit: Further thoughts, it has been discussed that the lobby mutually agreeing to leave is ok. Similar to the !draw you guys use in other games hosted.In this case, are we still bound by the 15 minute ruling if a mod decides to review the game? If a single player decides they want to keep playing, even though 11 others have said they don't, and that ONE player requests they all get banned the way I did, warrant such actions?

Players on the builder side would leave consistently because they felt the game was over, or no longer worth playing out. Now, they're stuck by the rules even if 8 of them say it's over and the titan has won, and the other 3 have died.

Edit 2: Because it's 2:30 and I'm forgetting things:
Currently, titan is allowed to leave as soon as he kills three players in the lobby, as you become observer when you die (and he kicks you). Which means the "from not selecting a builder" clause is needed at the very least.

[Merex]

Avion, if you don't want to clarify the new rules, I can promise you MANY more ban requests like the one I just posted will show up.

What happens to the community when entire lobbies are getting banned because of a silly lack of clarification and poor wording on your end?

Yes, leaving has been an issue... but if you make sure it's understoodleaving is NOT ok for a set amount of time, OR that three people may be banned if they decide to leave the game, then it should no longer be an issue.

Something quite tells me you didn't actually read what I said above, but allow me rephrase more clearly -

ID doesn't need more exceptions for a rule which already has 2 to them. Mind you that this rule alone is what kept most of the staff in discussions, and now that it exists, it shouldn't be altered. Not while it's this new, anyways.

Much like other rules of the same nature, there's going to be an influx of ban requests and if enforcement has to come to get the point across, then so be it. I'd rather not see more potential complications take a play here to spare a few discomforted feelings on a scenario which will only happen under the condition 3 players prior fall under violation themselves.

[Yarragon]

Something quite tells me you didn't actually read what I said above, but allow me rephrase more clearly -

ID doesn't need more exceptions for a rule which already has 2 to them. Mind you that this rule alone is what kept most of the staff in discussions, and now that it exists, it shouldn't be altered. Not while it's this new, anyways.

Much like other rules of the same nature, there's going to be an influx of ban requests and if enforcement has to come to get the point across, then so be it. I'd rather not see more potential complications take a play here to spare a few discomforted feelings on a scenario which will only happen under the condition 3 players prior fall under violation themselves.

See the edits I made, sorry. It's late and I'm forgetting things. I'm pushing for these updates because quite honestly, it's silly being locked into this game by the decision of a single player (titan in this case).

[chaowner]

I'm 100% in support of the change for better clarity i think the new rules are a great step in the right direction.

[ProfessorOak]

100% agree with proposed changes. +1.

[fdajax]

Clarification is good

Support

[Ben_T]

@yarragon I want to talk about the idea that you expressed that it's unfair that the builders can't leave just because the titan wants to keep playing. This is one of the reasons, in my opinion, that the builder leave rule is necessary. A Titan has a good game and is playing well, then everyone leaves and the titan now can't play out the game he's doing well in. There are times when he titan has a good start and the builders all leave because they want an easier game, even though they have a chance to win the current one. This then just ruins games for the titan who might be playing the best game he's had in a long time. In regards to this idea I can't say I support it.

[KamiKadse]

y. A Titan has a good game and is playing well, then everyone leaves and the titan now can't play out the game he's doing well in. There are times when he titan has a good start and the builders all leave because they want an easier game, even though they have a chance to win the current one.

^This

[Yarragon]

*sigh* You all are missing the point here.

Literally 90% of games have some sort of concede option available these days. DotA2, League, Counter-Strike, hell, even other games hosted by ENT have a !draw or !ff command.

The rules clarification would for one, take us a step closer to this option being available, and two - Clarify what they mean. What if I started playing titan, would kill three people, then immediately leave just because rules as stated allow me to do such? With the desyncs that are common right now, it wouldn't even need to be three kills - probably only one or two.

I'm not pushing for the leave trains to come back here, I'm pushing for a consensus in game, between both sides agreeing the game is over and they can move on to the next one; while also clarifying what deserves a ban and what does not.

[Kappa]

As you can see, I've edited my original post several times over the past days in order to close certain loopholes that have been brought to my attention and make the leaving rules more clear in general. I think it is reasonable to allow Builders to leave at the same time the Titan can. Part of the reason for updating the rules in the first place was to make the expectations of Builders and Titans to be more similar/on the same level of strictness.

Regardless of the builder leaving part being passed, I still think the following clarification still needs to be added to Titan leaving.

Titan may not leave within the first 15 minutes of spawning, unless it has been explicitly stated by another player that they are willing to take over Titan, or at least 3 alive builders have already left the game or become an observer from not picking.

In terms of adding a feature similar to !draw in Island Defense, I think that will need to be addressed in another suggestion as that was not my intention when creating this thread.

[xiiliea]

Honestly, the builder leaving rule is making the game worse for people who want to stay on to play. Just had a game where 2 people died in 2 minutes. Since I was playing Satyr, I had to risk it or stay useless the entire game, which gave titan a 3rd minion. Without this rule, I would have left and made the game better for the rest who wanted to play on. Builders can also suicide to circumvent this rule, ruining the game even further.