2s is just too unfair - suggestion for tower point system

[archol]

Im just dissapointed that i literally just face yggs or pure outrolls in my 2s in nearly all my games the last 2 seasons (never had a ygg once in my 2 seasons in 2s, my teammate only once), especially if its against 2 and immo (this was literally the third time against 2 yggs either from start or after rr 10 only from my <10 2s this season only (!)). Even when outplayed, u cant do nothing against this pure amount of luck, especially when the send luck is included too as u see in this replay

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=11227601

2 ygg with spider and mermaid (immo) vs aqua/scientiest rr and spawn/infantry/wyvern shit and wave ....

and in the end they just won 15 race because 1 demon leaked like 5 second before the other sends (else we would win), how the fuck is that even possible? They just killed demon before all other send

I suggest either a change of mode (sd only, or similar) or tower point system (for example each team gets 100 points total in 2s or more in 4s, and each tower count certain points, like ygg for 1 teammate counts as 20 etc., and milita t1 counts as 1)

[Krocis]

No, we wont change the system cause ur having bad rolls.

[Tom_hardy]

Sorry that im posting here than creating another topic, will be my last posting regarding that. Heres another example how a 2s can turn out - despite outroll and immo and thorn at our side

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=11012745

West (Fiji/Bigm) had archer/mutants/griffin/witch doc and ygg/druids/mutant/troll/turrets vs East (me/da_pwnerer) ghost from my first roll/mudman/alpha/griffin and spawn/druid and rerolled mutants after arena, and we would win the 17 race if i didnt fuck up the kingcontroll on 9, which resulted on a heal lost.

So how many of you would give up already or say we cant win due that? There were enough situation, where people won despite this odds (saber/ warchief vs archer/sea giant and malf/sea giant - and we won easy on 17 few days ago)

2s might be a teamkill mode if you dont know what to do - the reason why 4s is popular, because its less demanding to play (suicide, someone calling, team effort - thus the responsibility is shared towards 4 players than only 2) and due that easier. Thats why i always try (!) to help new(er) players to get into the mode (sorry BigM) or let them pick their teammate to make their 2s experience easier.

Thus why most people hate 2s, because of skill and mainly experience differences - and if you teamkill there, you really teamkill hard compared to 4s

Few days ago i and my teammate had pure teamkill rolls (saber on him, and warchief/skeleton archers on me) against archer/malf/sea giant on n1ll3 and his teammate and both had same king spells, and we still won that more or less quite easy, mainly because of their bad calls. And i saw enough players winning against 2 archers, 2 yggs etc. too with shit towers, against me or with me.

Sooo, you are saying the exact opposite of what you used to say about the importance of rolls in 2s compared to 4s?

[archol]

How does those my former postings have to do with the proposal above? What do you mean excactly Tom?

Who says im the only one who suffers from outrolls in 2s - there are plenty others. Thats the reason people hate and dodge 2s since it was invented

And this topic is about mainly the 2 ygg rolls, and afterwards the outrolls which happens to everyone - due that i ask for a more fair mode, so it lessen the chance to get outrolled and make 2s more popular.

I wanna see players handle 2 yggs and immo if played right in 2s, its not possible except they do a really big mistake inagme - so i ask for a suggestion to avoid that.

In season 1 we banned dualbuild, in season 2 we banned cross, in season 3 clog came and got denied later too. But as 2s is quite unpopular and it only has a small margain (hows high the chance to play against 2 yggs in 2s?) i guess there wont be any changes, and most lihl players dodge 2s because they cry about outrolls all the time

[Anda]

When we dont seperate 2s elo from 4s, we certainly will not change the system for it aswell, especially since its mainly used when bigger lobbies arent possible or people wanna farm elo from inexperienced guys...
Also this is a big minority that cares about 2s ive told alrdy we declared 4s the mainmode for LIHL.
The game is balanced for 4s, not for 2s, so if its imbalanced thats part of the game i guess.

[Tom_hardy]

What I was getting at was you posting examples of being able to beat the odds in 2s. And you being confident that it happens all the time that 2 archer or 2 ygg are beaten in 2s,

"And i saw enough players winning against 2 archers, 2 yggs etc. too with shit towers, against me or with me" -Archol

because of calls having a bigger importance in 2s. Obviously you cannot beat a perfectly called outroll. But the point was, that a skilldifference was supposed to have a bigger impact in 2s than in 4s. To me it was quite clear that this was your position from the previous posts about 2s, so it was quite ironic for me to see this one, thats all.

[archol]

It doesnt happen all the time, you can even reassemble it in 4s - if u play against 4 yggs or 4 archers, sometimes its impossible to win, sometimes theres a chance. But you must agree, if people dont know how to play against it or how to use it at the fullest effects its literally impossible. I think its not funny for anyone if you face those situations nearly 1/3 of ur game (even if its random)

In 2s a lane weights more than in 4s, as theres no others except 1 who can catch it up if something gfails. Ofc calls are important, because fail and right sends are as important in 2s than 4s etc. but in 2s it weights more in my opinion due less variances

[Anda]

Which part of no dont you understand archol?

We dont care for YOUR personal luck or unluck, its supposed to balance out over time for EVERYBODY.

Its the same chance for every player to get the same unit in every roll. 2s or 4s dont matter in that factors afaik. What need to change anything are you talking about really. This is unnecessary, and weve given you an answer alrdy.

[Wolke]

to much blabla here.
you scout 2x ygg from killspeed lvl. Information for you: Hard to kill them from 11-19.
with your rolls qua/scientiest rr and spawn/infantry/wyvern you can cover 7 and 10 so you have ez chance for 2 heal after 10.
Also with engi you fine 17. you had all rolls from lvl 1 to win the game even it is hard against 2 ygg.So you didn´t outplay them

[archol]

to much blabla here.
you scout 2x ygg from killspeed lvl. Information for you: Hard to kill them from 11-19.
with your rolls qua/scientiest rr and spawn/infantry/wyvern you can cover 7 and 10 so you have ez chance for 2 heal after 10.
Also with engi you fine 17. you had all rolls from lvl 1 to win the game even it is hard against 2 ygg.So you didn´t outplay them

Rofl

[Cryptonox]

2s and 4s elo should not be mixed thou.

[SLSGuennter]

I totaly agree with most whats said here except this:

We dont care for YOUR personal luck or unluck, its supposed to balance out over time for EVERYBODY.

Its the same chance for every player to get the same unit in every roll. 2s or 4s dont matter in that factors afaik.

Its "supposed" to balance out, yes, but since the amount of games is way to low to be counted as "big numbers", it doesnt rly happen.
Also, in 4s, there is twice the amount of players, so the amount of rolls is doubled and the actual roll-outcome (per team) gets closer to the "even-statstics" in half the amount of games.

Anyway, luck is part of the game, and thats a thing in nearly every game (besides chess maybe).

[SLSGuennter]

Okay let me try to simplify , yet meshaying a bit aswell.
Every player has the same % chance to get a certain unit, king spell etc.Mode 2s 3s 4s afaik dont change that number.
Ofc you cant compare the overall chance of getting a unit per team, its 200 % higher in 4s ofc since u simply have 4 people rolling. But in 2s still both teams have the exact same chance to get a certain unit, hence making it fair.
Whats happening here is that archol feels imbalance cause he rolled the dice 100 times and got 1-3 80 % out of it, and he feels his enemy scores 4-6 80% of the time.
That doesnt mean that the system is unfair, his chances to 4-6 were the same exact as the enemies player.It simply means that he is on an unlucky streak, and he wants to demand to implement a way to give people better rolls after having x amount of crap roles, or viseversa.
Besides being impracticle, this is missing the point.The outcome of a roll doesnt make it unfair at all. You have the same chance for good roll or crap roll every single time.If the % would be off i could understand a disagreement here, but it simply isnt changing. For nobody no matter what mode

He wouldnt be whining about this if he had premium rolls 80 % of time, thats why i got a bit frustrated. This is a subjective experience criticizing an overall, mathematically fair system. Dont mix this with elobalancing, that i agree doesnt work perfect, buts afaik 2s are ment to being sped 3 times and then 15 15 games always, unless somebody wanna stomp *cough*

[FadingSuns]

2s too unfair, i 100% agree, so remove that shit mode from lihl. TY!

[ZTX)Fiji]

Ok im getting tired of all these 2s crybabies.
Heres a fucking fact: if you cry About 2s, its cos ur shit at it. Stop whining bitches