Dota v6.85ne

[Tufuuu]

Hi,

my name is Tufu and I am the modder of Dracol1ch's 6.85n map. Our community (Ghostplay.de) was tired of playing the buggy and imbalanced 6.83d map. However we couldn't change to 6.85 because it had no Easy Mode anymore.
That's why I decided to "hack" the map and added the stuff our community needed:
Easy mode, balance fixes, bug fixes.

The balance fixes were heavily needed because heroes like Invoker, Alchemist, Tiny and Bristle were way too strong.
You can read the changelog here:

Spoiler!

General Stuff / Bugfixes:
- added EM (easy mode -> 2 Gold/sec, lower towers, more exp)
- Illusions no longer will wear Santa's hat when the owner is on a killing spree
- bug fix with Shadow Demon's Agha upgrade: It provides again 3 charges
- improved batriders firefly graphics (like in 6.88 now)
- Windrunner's upgraded ultimate (Focus Fire) can't be abused anymore against heroes with Linken's Sphere
- fixed a bug that caused Lycan being unable to summon wolves when Lone Druid is picked / randomed
- fixed a bug where Viper / Trax (heroes with walking orbs) could still attack although they were disarmed by Oracle's ability Fate's destiny
- fixed a bug with Tombstone that could be killed by plague ward with just 1 hit
- fixed a bug with "1 click purchasable items" (e.g. Ring of Basilius, Blademail etc) that were put into an allied courier after buying although it wasn't shared
- fixed a bug with the command "-csa" for Scourge players (it only showed the creepstats only for the pink player)
- removed the hotkey of Weaver's Geminate in order to prevent interfering it with the hotkey of Swarm (the issue that it becomes clickable is something that Blizzard needs to fix, they have it on their list already)


Rigwarl, Bristleback
- level 1 armor from 3 to 1
- Spray stack dmg from 30/32/34/36 to 25 on every level

Razzil Darkbrew, Alchemist
- Reduced Greevil's Greed bounty rune bonus from 5x to 1/2/2/3x
-Level 1 armor from 2 to 0

Kael, Invoker
- Alacrity's dmg from 30/40/50/60/70/80/90 to 10/25/40/55/70/85/100
- increase manacost from 45 to 80
- Deafening Blast mana cost from 200 to 300
- int gain from 4 to 3
- base int from 22 to 18
- Invoker's agha no longer gives +1 level to Quas Wex Exort

Pudge, Butcher
- old hook animation
- Rot slow from 27% to 20%

Purist Thunderwrath, Omniknight
- Increase cast point from 0.25 to 0.5 (like in 6.83)
- Repel duration from 4/6/8/10 to 4/5/6/7

Tiny, Stone Giant
- Int gain from 1.6 to 1
- str gain from 3.3 to 2.5

Slark, Murloc Nightcrawler
- ultimate's passive fadetime (passives delay when out of sight of the enemy ) has been increased from 0.5 to 2
- Pounce cd from 20/16/12/8 to 19/16/13/10
- Dark pact manacost from 40 to 60

Visage, Necro´lic
- Base magic resistance from 10% to 25% (which is the normal base magic resistance for a hero)

Meepo, Geomancer
- Base magic resistance from 35% to 25%

Mercurial, Spectre
- dispersion dmg reflection will be reduced from 10%/14%/18%/22%. to 12%/14%/16%/18%

Ymir, Tusskar
- Ice Shards work again like in 6.83d (only 5 blocking shards rather than 7)

Many people say "Tufu's map" when talking about 6.85ne but actually the community helped a lot by giving suggestions. Especially EmBer helped a lot and suggested like 90% of the balance things. Some members also tested the map in private games before we put them on our public bots to make sure I didn't break something.
As you can see I fixed a lot of bugs, however there are some rare bugs (they occur in 1/100 games). Currently I am aware of 3 of these bugs.
For example in very rare cases Doom's ulti doesn't silence nor mutes the items.

I am not here to convince you, rather I just wanted to give you some required info to help you decide wether you wanna add the map or not.
The feedback I got was mostly positive. One guy said the map feels more like 6.83 than 6.85. It might be that some of your players won't like it because heroes like Slark and LC are nerfed.

Personally I don't want to play a different version anymore.

If you want an overview what else (new items, gamplay changes etc) had been changed from 6.83 to 6.85 you may also want to read an excellent guide by one of our members:
https://ghostplay.de/index.php/Thread/3 ... m-players/


! Currently Battle.net is a mess and some tards have modified the map to their advantage (e.g. imba crits for leo), so it's better you get a copy from a trusted source. If you decide to add the map to your bots I suggest that you download it from here:
https://ghostplay.de/filebase/index.php ... ndidate-4/


Regards

[kunkka]

Seems fun. Let’s try this out and we can revert any time if we don’t like it. But playing a more updated map with new items and fewer meepo, slark, lc pickers seem the way to go!!

[GipsyRhum]

I agree with Kunkka, there is still possibility to come back to 6.83 if people dont love this version.
Tufuu, there was a bug with Chimaera, is it fixed ?

[pharaoh]

Yea, but are the graphic bugs taken care off? In 6.85 map, whenever a march of machines or tombstone or gyro ult was casted, everyone was lagging like hell. I prefer an imbalanced but playable older map than a new one that gives me epilepsy lol.

[EdgeOfChaos]

Meh. In general I'm not too happy about accepting edited maps like this, just on principle, unless it's to fix critical bugs. Anyone can make their own edited version. I don't know whether or not Ursa has the 80% Damage Reduction overpower in this version, but if so that's definitely the most op ability that's been in dota in the last decade.

Also, you nerfed the wrong skill on Slark. His ult isn't the thing that breaks the hero, it's the Essence Shift. The active on Shadow Dance is already not too great since it's bugged, now it's just even shittier, but you can still run around with 250 agi because of the silly duration on it. Should revert that change and make the E-Shift duration -> 15/30/45/60. Increasing mana cost of pact would hurt his early game but lategame would be unchanged (this is fine).
And probably the same on meepo tbh. Like that would help, but the +10% MR isn't why he's broken.
Tiny doesn't need nerfs. He isn't op.
No nerf to LC? Arc? Void?

[bill7907]

I find that strange. How did people on Battle.Net modify the 6.85 NE version if you had it protected?

Yes I also prefer one version that is the official version played everywhere.
We don't want 20 versions of the map.
Uniformity should be the main element here.

It seems H3rmit was the only one who had a version of 6.83d.

I got many questions regarding this map development.
The one that come up right now is what direction are you intending to follow with future versions?
Are you developing in collaboration with DracoLich?
Did you take his permission to modify the map?

[Peachtree]

I can tell you are not too familar with the 85 map edge. Most of op heroes in 83 were alrdy nerfed in previous versions. 83 was last icefrog dota 1 version. You can find the patch notes in dota 2 gameplay updates.

https://www.dota2.com/684/
https://www.dota2.com/685/

Ursa is not op since his new ulti lasts for 4 seconds with 50 seconds cooldown.

Tiny was (some argue still is) op due the new items that perfectly fit his item build, buffed toss and better early game stats.

I would highgly recommend you to test few games of this map instead of pondering which heroes are op and not op.

Edit: there is no reason to discuss gamebalacing if you are not extemely familar with the 6.85 patch.

[Sylvanas]

I'm not reading any significant changes for Tiny between .83 and .85. But sure, let's just quickly give him the worst int growth in the entire game and turn his strength from great to mediocre just because someone said he was too strong? What about omni, .5s cast time? Why not cut the bullshit and simply replace all his skills by "disabling yourself like a dumbass"? Bristle I kind of get because octarine does sound seriously strong on him, but since when can everyone just take a random dota version and just go any random ass way they feel with it? How is your version any more legitimate than the "imba crits leoric" one? This is stupid.

[EdgeOfChaos]

Fair enough, I am not familiar with it at all. Glad to hear Ursa's ulti is balanced.

Many changes are stupid and unjustified. For that alone I don't believe we should play this map. Or else, why can't I go and shit-ify a few heroes cause I don't like them and then post the game to ent autohost lul.

IMO when you are not the mapmaker, you should need a strong justification to make balance changes and get it autohosted (simply because it's not even your game) and I'm just not seeing it.

[Peachtree]

Its honestly afterall the ent communities choise if they want to run this map or not. Yes it has some performamce issues on lower end pc's when there are some compined animations. And yes you might have some worries about the hacked versions or the if tufuu has the rights to even edit this map. But for me and many other people this is the most balanced and variant dota 1 experince you can have.

[EdgeOfChaos]

Again - by your standards.

That isn't objective at all and there's no more legitimacy to the map than if I choose to make my own version. Previously, the edited versions were only accepted because they fixed critical bugs in the game, and did not change the gameplay. That, at least, is an objective standard.

[Tufuuu]

Hi,

@GipsyRhum I have been told that Dracol1ch already fixed all bugs with Jakiro in 6.85n. I also played him several times (recently he was one of my favourites) and I never noticed a bug.

@EdgeofChaos Thanks for your constructive feedback. However I have the feeling that you didn't play the original 6.85n by Dracol1ch very often. Ursa isn't a problem at all. Meepo isn't broken anymore since he doesn't have faster respawn times and he receives the same gold penalty like other heroes when rebuying. After hosting hundreds of 6.85ne games I rarely saw someone owning with Meepo (including me and I used to be a decent Meepo player). LC had been nerfed by Dracol1ch, he's fine now. I saw some LC players complaining that he is so "weak" now xD . Tbh I dunno how imba Arc is in this version. Maybe Peachtree can tell you more. He played the map way more often than me already on the mymgn bots and he explained very well why we did the changes in the .85ne version. You can read it here:
https://ghostplay.de/index.php/Thread/3 ... /?pageNo=1

@bill7907 Mapprotection is just shifting some bytes, there is no high level fileencryption algorithm like AES. So anyone who has some knowledge about the file format of WC3 maps and who knows the right tools can modify it. When I started modding, my first map was indeed the 6.83d map. I also know that H3rmit did it the same way like me, he didn't have the permission but he needed to fix some gamebreaking bugs cause Icefrog didn't care anymore.

@Sylvanas Thanks for your salty reply. Q: " How is your version any more legitimate than the "imba crits leoric" one? " - A: I got the legitimation by the Ghostplay community and I didn't modify the map to my advantage. Every change that was made had been discussed thoroughly by a number of experienced users. Maybe not every change was optimal but at least for our community it worked quite well and as I said above we hosted hundreds of games with this map. Maybe you still won't like it which is fine.

Ofc you don't need to take the map, I fully understand it. Afaik you ENT guys always prefered the .83d map for some reasons and I won't be able to play on your servers anyway due to high ping. I just wanted to give some info since someone asked to add this map.

I think I'm done now. Further discussion and the final decision is up to you. Thanks for considering, I feel honoured

Best regards

[EdgeOfChaos]

Well, thank you for showing me that there is indeed justification. But holy shit. I'm sorry, but this is some of the absolute worst change justification I've ever seen. I won't even call out the spelling and grammar errors that are there, because there's 3 of them per description (I do understand language barrier is a thing).

Some of the worst:

Who's idea was to make bara the tankies hero level 1 and also give him 5 base armor? Fuck you bara.

-> Because he's a tanky strength hero? There will ALWAYS be one hero who is the tankiest level 1 by definition. And along those same lines, there will always be a carry in the top spot, no matter what you do.
-> Clearly shows the bias of the map editor. He just doesn't like bara, that's the reason for the nerf.

I have never played vs em mode meepo in 6.85 since there has never been EM mode in this map before so its hard to say if meepo is still a major problem, that simple makes games unfair, therefore this nerf has been added

-> Am I having a stroke or does this make absolutely no sense?

Ultimate's longer fade time makes it easier to chase slark when he decides to escape.

-> Yes it sure does. And why was this necessary? When you play vs. my slark, you're the one who needs to try to escape, not the other way around.

Tiny had too much mana in the early game which makes him really strong. In 6.85 he is able to use his combo without any mana items in level 3.

-> Being able to cast two spells before healing is considered too much?

I have always thougth repel's was too op in pub games since most people dont know how to counter it.

-> People don't know how to counter it, therefore nerf it. You can nerf anything in the game you want with this reasoning.

The greed's ability to give 5x bounty is one of the biggest bullshit things in dota, making him able to get 500 gold per first bounty rune. This change will make him more less reliable to get fast items just by getting bounty rune every 2 mins.

-> Or you can just like.. stop him from getting the bounty rune? Was that even considered? Obviously 5x is too much, but bringing to 1x is an over-nerf.

That seems to be a pattern with this person; overnerf and turn a good hero into shit. And then I'm guessing over-buff a few versions later again. Like, it's not a good thing that LC is weak. He's not supposed to be. He should be balanced. Not weak, not strong.

This just shows me that we should never host a version made by this person. Like no hate here, he's just not ready for this.

[Tufuuu]

Dunno why you are always so salty. Anyways I need to add that this thread is not up to date. Check my chatlog above for the final changes. We changed alchi's bonus for gold runes now to 1/2/2/3. And I never touched LC, Dracol1ch did the changes and many .83d players complain about him.
Cheers

[EdgeOfChaos]

Because the changelog shows that you don't have any idea or direction for what you're doing. You just do whatever you feel like with no good reason, and for that I strongly object to this map being hosted. I pointed out the absolute worst ones, but there's basically nothing good in that changelog.