I feel like we come to a critical point. I wont make an essay about it and i will explain it quite easly and frankly.
The 2 last ban appeals, we could see one of them not recognizing any mistakes nore apologizing but playing the 'i didnt see card',
and the second apologizing and recognizing his mistakes also saying he wont make it again, getting his ban appeal denied.
A while ago i called naivety about some judgments, but from now on, i really do feel some of them are strongly and deeply biased. Looks pretty caricatural to me.
Something has to be done about moderation.
Moderator: LIHL Staff
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FadingSuns
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
Ppl need to learn to accept (not share) mods decissions.
!denied
!denied
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BoretkPanda
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
Anda wrote:As an expert proven on being biased, im sure you know what you are talking about.
Shots fired!
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Jamo
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
This thread is pure joke really. And this is not about moderation this is just again another Vendeta related shit which you feel should be handled differently from your experience back in the days. You are not even active here at all and all you do is ranting in Discord or forum. I find that pretty lame. I really think you are a nice guy but ever since you started this, I cannot really take you serious anymore.
Basically everything Hodor wrote in his appeal could be summarized to "When there will be another tough situation created by others I don't know hot to handle it and will rq until I learn the rule for it". When you appeal, you want something from Mods, so you need to offer something from your side, easy as is. And if you believe that Vendeta was distracted and didn't see the 1-important line, can be discussed. But Mod believed him and granted the appeal.
And as for appeals, they will always be controvers and some will like it others not. That's got nothing to do with Moderation. That's why I already wrote a year ago or so that appeals should just not be an option. Just be a man and take your ban, that's it. I typically do not believe much of what is written in appeals and this alwas creates strange situations where others feel misjudged. Can never make it right for everyone and those appeals just add another unnecessary dimension to it in my opinion.
Sorry for my words, but this thread really makes me angry
Basically everything Hodor wrote in his appeal could be summarized to "When there will be another tough situation created by others I don't know hot to handle it and will rq until I learn the rule for it". When you appeal, you want something from Mods, so you need to offer something from your side, easy as is. And if you believe that Vendeta was distracted and didn't see the 1-important line, can be discussed. But Mod believed him and granted the appeal.
And as for appeals, they will always be controvers and some will like it others not. That's got nothing to do with Moderation. That's why I already wrote a year ago or so that appeals should just not be an option. Just be a man and take your ban, that's it. I typically do not believe much of what is written in appeals and this alwas creates strange situations where others feel misjudged. Can never make it right for everyone and those appeals just add another unnecessary dimension to it in my opinion.
Sorry for my words, but this thread really makes me angry
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IamHodor
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
I just stated the facts. Why did I leave this game, this cant be avoided. There are reasons why. This happened severals times with vendeta, it can't be a coincidence. Even tho he gets his appeal accorded withing hours only. I talked to epicdeath in PM after i saw that vendeta got instantaly appealed despite his huge history on the subject. I asked him if I could be unbanned if I did an appeal. He said that there were NO REASONS to no unban me.
Even tho, after I appealed I got denied. Justice is not there. Please bring us good judgment and fair justice.
Thanks.
Hodor
Even tho, after I appealed I got denied. Justice is not there. Please bring us good judgment and fair justice.
Thanks.
Hodor
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Anda
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
You want fair moderation hodor ? what about the fact that after serving a 1 year ban you couldnt prevent yourself from sticking to rules even in your trial period? Yet we still gave you the doubt and let you play on here to proove yourself.
What about that you constantly brag on how unfair everything here is, completely disrespectiong lihl-moderation? We made a majority call, you dont have to to agree with the outcome, but its a matter of accepting it.You gave your side, we gave ours we even told you what we expected you to appeal then we were in favor or granting it.
Your appeal didnt convince us, so dont you dare to say epic promised you sth when what you delivered was far from what was to be expected.
Consider yourself happy your even allowed to continue your trial with this level of behaviour and disrespect, seriously.
I wanted to deny your trial instant when i saw your rq, but other moderators overvoted me for it cause they have faith in you.
If thats biased towards you, i cant help it rly.Thats accepting other peoples opinions and acknowledging you dont hold the truth to everything but your opinion is just 1 subjective one and it doesnt matter more then anybody others.
Consider yourself lucky i dont get it my way here all the time.
What about that you constantly brag on how unfair everything here is, completely disrespectiong lihl-moderation? We made a majority call, you dont have to to agree with the outcome, but its a matter of accepting it.You gave your side, we gave ours we even told you what we expected you to appeal then we were in favor or granting it.
Your appeal didnt convince us, so dont you dare to say epic promised you sth when what you delivered was far from what was to be expected.
Consider yourself happy your even allowed to continue your trial with this level of behaviour and disrespect, seriously.
I wanted to deny your trial instant when i saw your rq, but other moderators overvoted me for it cause they have faith in you.
If thats biased towards you, i cant help it rly.Thats accepting other peoples opinions and acknowledging you dont hold the truth to everything but your opinion is just 1 subjective one and it doesnt matter more then anybody others.
Consider yourself lucky i dont get it my way here all the time.
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Jamo
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
Well, the way I see it, the facts were taken into consideration in the judgement of the case already. No need to state them again. In an appeal you should show that you also work on your side. What you do better next time when such a situation arises again or how you avoid it. There are ALWAYS two sides and since you also got banned, you are not free of guilt. So show that you work on yourself and not blame others for what you did. Imo one could have stopped reading your appeal when you wrote " I know that rage quit is not a solution, but I didn't see any at this time.". Next time you do not see the solution, you just gonna rq again or what? Really... you need to reflect on yourself a bit on that and leave others (Vendeta in this case) out of it. If you do not see that, I'm writing against a wall I guess...
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Meshtar
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
I was a bit reluctant to come to this topic and deliver an essay, mostly cause there are faults at both sides, but my wish is purely to calm the spirits, cause we can do without this drama, I am sure.
First of all, you guys can make a complaint about some ruling without screaming bias right away, mods are prone to mistakes, same as everyone else.
Taken separately, Hodor's appeal is bullshit, as Jamo already said, so again taken separately, it was rightfully denied and I would probably do the same in Anda's shoes if there were no mitigating factors. Sadly, there are mitigating factors and those are some other appeals that were recently granted and which were possibly even bigger bullshit than Hodor's and yes, Vendeta's appeal was one such example.
Because of those cases I would, if I was a ruling mod, probably grant the appeal to avoid this exact drama even if the appeal itself was bs, as I already said. When you start going down a bad road its hard to simply stop and reverse and I guess that is what Anda is trying to do, put a stop to these senseless and insincere appeals and its hard and maybe unfair towards the guy who gets to be the first one to be denied when everyone else has gotten away with bigger bullshit. At this point, it would be fair to emphasize that Anda himself hasn't granted any of those bullshit appeals.
There isn't just one mod and as you saw their criteria isn't really balanced well so we get into these situations. But instead of calling bias, and I am sure there is no bias with Anda or epicdeath or any other mod, I think we need to insist that mods start coordinating much better than they did so far, because this is their doing and even if I don't support the bias accusations made against the mods, I do understand Hodor's and Donki's anger in this case and I feel this could have been avoided if mods balanced their criteria which would lead to rejecting Vendeta's appeal and also some other appeals before, which I won't mention specifically to avoid adding fuel to the fire.
Simply put, every moderator is different in his mindset and has his own notions of right and wrong, so we should use this case to make them see that and try to do better and develop some universal criteria.
First of all, you guys can make a complaint about some ruling without screaming bias right away, mods are prone to mistakes, same as everyone else.
Taken separately, Hodor's appeal is bullshit, as Jamo already said, so again taken separately, it was rightfully denied and I would probably do the same in Anda's shoes if there were no mitigating factors. Sadly, there are mitigating factors and those are some other appeals that were recently granted and which were possibly even bigger bullshit than Hodor's and yes, Vendeta's appeal was one such example.
Because of those cases I would, if I was a ruling mod, probably grant the appeal to avoid this exact drama even if the appeal itself was bs, as I already said. When you start going down a bad road its hard to simply stop and reverse and I guess that is what Anda is trying to do, put a stop to these senseless and insincere appeals and its hard and maybe unfair towards the guy who gets to be the first one to be denied when everyone else has gotten away with bigger bullshit. At this point, it would be fair to emphasize that Anda himself hasn't granted any of those bullshit appeals.
There isn't just one mod and as you saw their criteria isn't really balanced well so we get into these situations. But instead of calling bias, and I am sure there is no bias with Anda or epicdeath or any other mod, I think we need to insist that mods start coordinating much better than they did so far, because this is their doing and even if I don't support the bias accusations made against the mods, I do understand Hodor's and Donki's anger in this case and I feel this could have been avoided if mods balanced their criteria which would lead to rejecting Vendeta's appeal and also some other appeals before, which I won't mention specifically to avoid adding fuel to the fire.
Simply put, every moderator is different in his mindset and has his own notions of right and wrong, so we should use this case to make them see that and try to do better and develop some universal criteria.
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Anda
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
You are right meshtar, this was handled inconsistently, and im very unhappy with the results myself. I explained yday, i would not have granted vendetas appeal since my general logic doesnt think the chances that he is telling true is over 50 %. As a friend he told me its true so i do believe him. I realized i have a conflicting interest in it, so i stepped aside from my vote since i was honestly had problems balancing my call. If i was forced to make a call on majority decision, i would still have denied it, cause my personal friendship with him i will not allow myself to cloud my moderating duties. Still, my opinion on the case doesnt matter much, since its a 1v1 call if i am to make it and other moderators didnt comment on it. What the hell do you want me/us to do in such a case?
I have explained in detail that the bans were a majority decision, hodors ban appeal was handled as a majority decision and vendetas appeal wasnt. That is not right, majority calls should be appealed by majority calls aswell, and epic is now aware of it. Let the guys do mistakes and learn without lynching him and calling him biased. He did a pretty fine job so far, and hes super active and rly motivated.
I have responded to it openly, said we are aware we made a mistake on the progress, and we will see in the future that it doesnt happen again.
I rly dont know what Don and Hodor want from us, asides realizing theres a mistake being made and we try to better. We will always make mistakes, and we try minimize it as we go.
What i will not tolerate is being called biased, myself or any other moderator.
I banned vendeta on pretty much every violation that was reported to me since i joined mod staff, yet still some persons are simply not able to accept that fact. I even took it upon myself to handle these cases, since i was aware that the view since i supported him over the top in his trial, i needed to proove myself to judge him fairly in moderation.I believe i showed that in my rulings.I can have a friend and still be an objective moderator, even when he is involved.Im getting tired of hearing different out in open with zero, and i mean zero proof to any of that.
And im pissed getting called biased by biased persons themselves, nor being disrespected by a trial that is depending on the work we invest in looking at how he behaves, and shows no respect towards moderation , rules or lihl values in general.
I dont demand people to share moderations view, but i demand respect for the decisions we make , and if its unfair in members view, complain in a helpfull and objective matter.Everybody here is willing to improve and think twice about everything and change our decisions or thought process.
And on the matter of the appeal, a imo wrong appeal doesnt justify another wrongly made appeal. If i feel something is unjust, i wont stand with my name for it, never have and never will.
That being said, i can totally understand why and how hodor and don feel, but the way they act about it is making my stomach turn.
I have explained in detail that the bans were a majority decision, hodors ban appeal was handled as a majority decision and vendetas appeal wasnt. That is not right, majority calls should be appealed by majority calls aswell, and epic is now aware of it. Let the guys do mistakes and learn without lynching him and calling him biased. He did a pretty fine job so far, and hes super active and rly motivated.
I have responded to it openly, said we are aware we made a mistake on the progress, and we will see in the future that it doesnt happen again.
I rly dont know what Don and Hodor want from us, asides realizing theres a mistake being made and we try to better. We will always make mistakes, and we try minimize it as we go.
What i will not tolerate is being called biased, myself or any other moderator.
I banned vendeta on pretty much every violation that was reported to me since i joined mod staff, yet still some persons are simply not able to accept that fact. I even took it upon myself to handle these cases, since i was aware that the view since i supported him over the top in his trial, i needed to proove myself to judge him fairly in moderation.I believe i showed that in my rulings.I can have a friend and still be an objective moderator, even when he is involved.Im getting tired of hearing different out in open with zero, and i mean zero proof to any of that.
And im pissed getting called biased by biased persons themselves, nor being disrespected by a trial that is depending on the work we invest in looking at how he behaves, and shows no respect towards moderation , rules or lihl values in general.
I dont demand people to share moderations view, but i demand respect for the decisions we make , and if its unfair in members view, complain in a helpfull and objective matter.Everybody here is willing to improve and think twice about everything and change our decisions or thought process.
And on the matter of the appeal, a imo wrong appeal doesnt justify another wrongly made appeal. If i feel something is unjust, i wont stand with my name for it, never have and never will.
That being said, i can totally understand why and how hodor and don feel, but the way they act about it is making my stomach turn.
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TinSoldier
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
Can we add a Twitter style word limit to forum posts? I like my drama short and sweet.
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IamHodor
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
As tin said, short drama is sweet drama. I'd rather have no mods than bad and unfair mods.
LoseYourselfjeudi dernier à 00:44
Hi epic, do you think that I have a chance to appeal my unvouch?
It was the first time that i rq in this league
epicdeathjeudi dernier à 00:44
I personally wouldnt grant a 5 day rq appeal before 3 days
but you're welcome to make it, the others might disagree
I also dont really see a reason not to grant your appeal after 2 more days
LoseYourselfjeudi dernier à 00:45
you instantaly appeal vendeta when he obv saw krocis msg
LoseYourselfjeudi dernier à 00:44
Hi epic, do you think that I have a chance to appeal my unvouch?
It was the first time that i rq in this league
epicdeathjeudi dernier à 00:44
I personally wouldnt grant a 5 day rq appeal before 3 days
but you're welcome to make it, the others might disagree
I also dont really see a reason not to grant your appeal after 2 more days
LoseYourselfjeudi dernier à 00:45
you instantaly appeal vendeta when he obv saw krocis msg
Last edited by IamHodor on Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Anda
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Re: Something has to be done about moderation.
Thank you for summarizing all my problems with yourself, making it easier for donki to read since he doesnt like essay. You want another shovel to keep digging your grave?
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