Unban asap

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Kappa
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Re: Unban asap

Postby Kappa » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:14 am

@ludacris

Alright. I don't need you to spam replies. You can edit your posts.

You switched targets which delayed the killing of units which adds more damage to the king. 1+1=2 always but if you hit everyone unit with 1 and then again with 1 it increases the damage taken by the king as opposed to hitting units with 2 right away. Nothing you did here points to more efficiently killing units. Changing targets doesn't make killing more efficient here.

Its juggling and violating our rules. Now I will give you one more chance to work with us on this appeal or if you want to keep throwing a fit I will deny it. I suggest you read this again:

Code: Select all

Do not change the king's target to delay killing, except to efficiently kill multiple targets or kill higher priority targets such as sent units or low hp units. Range stomping and backward waving is allowed.

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Re: Unban asap

Postby Kappa » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:29 am

Alright this is becoming ridiculous and bratmi's case is different than yours. It's relating killing ranged creeps while immolation is active on melee creeps. Also, switching targets and 'canceling' animation to kill more efficiently is mechanically impossible and confirmed by broud3r (given no king abilities).

Please rewatch wave 8 and tell me your aren't delaying the killing of creeps which leads to extra damage done to the king. I'm not concerned about other cases I'm concerned about yours. You are told in game this is juggling on 5 and continue to do it on 8 as a way to flaunt it.

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Re: Unban asap

Postby ludacris » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:28 am

ok, sorry for multiple entries but im quite frustrated as i still dont understand how the king skill makes any difference ( by the way in 1 of the games reportes by hoebell we had Thormail).

i have not seen where broud3r has confirmed its inpossible to cut time. i will adjust my control if we are sure thats the case.

i agree with you i did take more dmg from creeps, but i didnt cost us heal and we fill hp with regen didnt lose heal on 7 again, so i thought thats not an issue, let me know if ao.

so ok, im sorry, but at the end i think this was beneficial for the community to understand whats against the rules and whats for so we know when to report.

for the record, can you confirm if shift attacking distant creeps ( 1 by 1) in order to gain time, which is clearly not efficient - please confirm whether that delay is bannable or not, so i know whether to use it or not?

also, can you please state if there are any exceptions regarding king skill (other than those listed in the rules i.e. back wave and range stomp) as this sounds a bit counterintuitive to me but please flag your final position and we will take it as granted. thank you.

can you please unban me now ? i pledge i will adhere 100% to your guidance in All of my games, and i will also expect others to adhere to it too so we have systematic appoach to this and everyone takes the SAME Treatment which i believe will be great


i believe i would happy as long as we reach agreement, and not going to report past violations (including hoebels prevention of attacks) , but will definitely look up in future games no doubt so please give clear guidance and list of any potential considerations/ and exceptions for any cases that may apply so we are all aware and if need please change the rules, particularly referring to distant-shifting.

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Re: Unban asap

Postby legiontdgrrr » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:39 am

@Kappa nope he dont get it , i exp him too many times ,but he dont want too understand this
and yeah i didnt saw the second replay on the brq sadly , will do it asap if its like a game i was in , it will be 2 more days add ban for ludacris for king juggle

http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 677532.w3g
seBastian Kimi is FASTER then you

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Re: Unban asap

Postby ludacris » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:42 am

wait, can you please not violate the point of 2nd opinion?

the issue is also, as posted feom falenga comments and hutzu, it seems even some mods were confused whther change targets cuts time or not, so its not fair i get the whole blame! well in any case, it ought be clear now.

i also took picture of this post, so no need to delete it like the last one, and seems you are actually not done with me and want to exact further revenge which is sad.

well regarding 2ns game, its in the report as well so you you would have considered it. and again your ban directly contradicts what falenga and hutzu said in the past. are you more admin than them ? i think we can draw the line here and not become petty admins. i think the point is if people violated the rule to improve their gaming, and not punishing them and on top of contradiction with previously commented by other admins. or you want ro implement special rules for me?
Last edited by ludacris on Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Unban asap

Postby legiontdgrrr » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:44 am

@ludacris man no agreement with you atleast from my part tho i will not denie this one and will let another admin too do it, i dont see you still get it , and i have 1 more brq on you for the same reason ,witch i didnt do it yesterday
so if you did juggle again on that game it 2 more days added too your ban

idk why you make so trouble for a clear rule
Do not change the king's target to delay killing, except to efficiently kill multiple targets or kill higher priority targets such as sent units or low hp units. Range stomping and backward waving is allowed.
seBastian Kimi is FASTER then you

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Re: Unban asap

Postby bratmi » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:55 am

Kappa wrote:Alright this is becoming ridiculous and bratmi's case is different than yours. It's relating killing ranged creeps while immolation is active on melee creeps.

I agree that it is getting ridiculous, but I have to intervene, this is not true. In my case he was switching attack between hermits after there were no mele creeps left. Immolation is irrelevant. In my case his switching attacks did cost maybe 1-2 more hits, which was confirmed by moderator. Yet, he wasn't banned, although the delay intent was clear. In the replay I watched here on level 5 his changing of attacks didn't result in more hits, so the delay was less than it was in my case. In both cases, how much damage the king is taking is irrelevant, for it gets regenerated and has no impact on the game, it should be only about how much time it takes to kill.

Please, take a look at the exact quotes that I posted and how do they apply to this case.

Edit:
"Do not change the king's target to delay killing, except to ..."
The rule specifically treats how much time is delayed by jungling. So the severity of the jungling depends on how much time is delayed by rotating/requiring more hits. I have a quote from moderator stating that switching and rotating more is okay, as long as it takes the same ammount of hits. And in my case there were even more hits, but he still wasn't banned since it was only 1 second.
Last edited by bratmi on Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unban asap

Postby Kappa » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:57 am

@ludacris

In the case that no king skill is damaging units, switching targets does not speed up kill efficiency period. The only time switching target is okay is to prioritize high value send targets or when a king's skill can be used to damage multiple units. Damaging units partially and using stomp can be more effective than killing them 1 by 1 for example.

In this case, you had immolation and switched target against ranged units with no sends present on Wave 8. This means, there is absolutely no way you weren't delaying. On top of that, you did the same thing on Wave 5. People told you the rules earlier and you did it again just to prove a point which you were wrong about.

I don't understand what is so difficult about understanding this rule which I will post for the 3rd time now:

Code: Select all

Do not change the king's target to delay killing, except to efficiently kill multiple targets or kill higher priority targets such as sent units or low hp units. Range stomping and backward waving is allowed.


You keep saying combative things and I'm getting tired of it. I've explained it to you plenty now and another moderator agrees. There is no pettiness or special rules for you. There are plenty of cases where the same ruling has been given.

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Re: Unban asap

Postby bratmi » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:02 pm

@Kappa
So can we assume that the previous 3 moderators which participated in my case were wrong, and you and grrr are right and finish this? What you are stating contradicts directly with their statements.

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Re: Unban asap

Postby Kappa » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:07 pm

@bratmi

Everyone case is different and I trust that the previous 3 moderators made a good judgement. There is a difference between someone making a mistake thinking animation canceling is faster against hermits (which it isn't and later confirmed by brouder after that case) and accidentally costing 1-2 hits, and someone being told the rules in-game yet blatantly breaking them again later and costing a significant amount of king damage as a result. Now there is no need for you to comment further here as we don't need your help to handle an appeal.

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Re: Unban asap

Postby ludacris » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:30 pm

well i remember once legiontgrrrr told me about someone afk-ing not to report as it will be denied (as theg were friends) so please forgive me if i take his words with a grain of fault. i didnt mean to blatantly violate rules, but rather insert clarity because it is clear not everyone was on the same page.

and yes, i understand what you are saying. i apologize but there is quite big confusion here, thankfully it is more clear now. still pending your advice on distant-shifting too which causes delay, is not efficient, but has not been banned for until now.

so once again, i am not trying to use combative statements, please unban i now understand what you consider agaist rulez (pending your clarity on the above distant-shifting and any special considerations for king skill other than listed in the rules) and thanks to bratmi case even more clarity, so you will have no issue with me on these ones, belive that gives you plenty of merits for unbaning me.

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Re: Unban asap

Postby Augustinus » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:39 pm

I am really no friend of the OP, but he is 100% right here.

switching targets does actually kill faster if you skip parts of the animation.
The rule states:

Do not change the king's target to delay killing, except to efficiently kill multiple targets or kill higher priority targets such as sent units or low hp units. Range stomping and backward waving is allowed.


If there is no hermit alive and he is not dancing with the king or letting him turn around while switching targets it is impossible to kill slower than with autofocus. Hence I can safely assume that he is actually killing faster than auto.

Does not matter how many moderators overlooked that fact, it won't change the math behind it.

EDIT: I really can't follow the moderators argument here that he had immolation. If he had wave or stomp it would be perfectly fine not to use spell at lvl 5 or 8, so how is having immolation an argument for enforcing a ban here?
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Re: Unban asap

Postby Quetra » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:35 pm

The reason they are mentioning immolation is because if he had stomp/wave/thorn there might be a legitimate reason to switch targets to kill faster. As it's immolation there is no benefit to doing so when hawks are two shot and the spell does not affect them.
If there is no hermit alive and he is not dancing with the king or letting him turn around while switching targets it is impossible to kill slower than with autofocus. Hence I can safely assume that he is actually killing faster than auto.

Maybe don't assume then, and watch the replay instead. Where he did turn around several times.

switching targets does actually kill faster if you skip parts of the animation.

Also, this simply isn't true as per broud3r. It is impossible to kill faster by changing targets so there is no benefit to doing so. You can cut parts of the switching target animation yes but it's never faster than just attacking the same target.

This is a nonsense argument and he knows full well what he was doing. He controlled the king properly, attacking adjacent targets and killing them one at a time until it was clear that there was no risk of taking another heal. Then he started switching targets, spinning around and making the reason for doing so obvious.

The case he mentioned, the replay has already expired. But you can clearly see in the comments the case is in a different context involving a delay of about a second from switching one target.

There will be no complaints accepted for this considering your case has been reviewed by 3 moderators and is frankly incredibly straight forward.

Do not change the king's target to delay killing, except to efficiently kill multiple targets or kill higher priority targets such as sent units or low hp units. Range stomping and backward waving is allowed.


Denied


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