banned 3 days ff abuse

[NinaHagen]

Your Warcraft III username: NinaHagen1
Realm/Gateway:
Why are you banned: ff abuse
Why you should be unbanned:
It was 80 leaks lvl 1 with 1 player already dead lane. we had 3x really bad rolls.
Pintuna might have been mid with spawn. i was just beeing realistic abut that game beeing lost, since we played vs better players with 1 obious tker who started halfbreen when he could have started with ents and been mid. There is no way we are going to win that game with 1 tk player vs yolo rolls with really bad rolls.

Pls have a moderator who understands a little bit about the game take a look at this. If this doesnt get appealed i prolly wont come back to play.
There is already such a low level of quality in 1200 games and then u get banned because you dont want to suffer through a lost game for 15 min.
Seems the quality of moderating is decreasing same as fun on this bot.

[Astros]

1) Did you even watch the game again? The game ended before anyone officially leaked.

2) You don't get to decide when the game is over and ruin it for someone else.

3) I don't need to be a pro about the game. You only !ff if there is enough evidence that you are definitively going to lose or if there is a unanimous agreement with your team to !ff. One player still wanted to play.

4) No one here is trying to make you miserable. You just need to understand the rules if you want to play here.

[NinaHagen]

1) No i did not. I do not need to. I remember the game well. And everything i said was true. Was going to be 80 leaks easy. maybe 70. Doenst really matter.
2) Thats not an argument. We were 3 ppl who agreed to ff. Pintuna is a nice guy, but he is also very unexperienced in 1200 and cant asess the situation correctly.
3) There was enough evidence that the game was lost. We were weaker team, had dead lane and bad rolls. I stated these arguments and you chose to ignore them
4) you obviously are. u need to understand that i could report half of the players in each game i play because they are breaking rules. I dont do it cuz im playing on a bot where there are barely any players left to play. And now u ban be for 3 days for something very minor, on a report from a player who has like 50 games on 1200 bot.

Good moderating.

I asked for someone with some basic understanding to look at this. I didnt ask for u to troll me with a nonsense response

[Astros]

You need to understand that the game wasn't over and you have no evidence it would've been. It wasn't minor. A player lost the game because you guys didn't want to play before the game lasted even ten seconds.

Another moderator can take a look at it. Fine by me.

[NinaHagen]

I asked for someone with some basic understanding to look at this. I didnt ask for u to troll me with a nonsense response

[NinaHagen]

I want you to take a look at the game and make the following claims:
1. Enemy team is worse players than us
2. THe guy who went 3/0 with halfbreed is not a dead lane
3. We had good rolls

Look at our rolls and show me a way for us to win that game.

[Astros]

I want you to take a look at the game and make the following claims:
1. Enemy team is worse players than us
2. THe guy who went 3/0 with halfbreed is not a dead lane
3. We had good rolls

Look at our rolls and show me a way for us to win that game.

You don't even know what the other team is doing. They could do worse. By not even giving the game a chance, you cost another player to lose. Sorry to tell you but the game doesn't revolve around what you think should happen. The rules are in place so every player can have a chance to play a fair game. It wasn't fair for you guys to !ff and cause the game to end before the game could actually be played. We don't need to discuss this further. Another mod will handle it (as you've requested).

[NinaHagen]

Sad to see this bot go to shits. But makes leaving all the more easy for me.
Its ridicilous that I would get banned 3 days for not wanting to play that game.
U need to understand that half the ppl playing 1200 bot are toxic af and i need to play like 5 games to have 1 game that is actually fun.
If u think u need to ban me for that ff you should just shut down the 1200 bot. Or at least ban everybody playing on the bot.
After 5k games i can tell if a game is over or not. I have made the arguments and you chose to ignore them.

If all moderators agree that you were right in banning me, so be it. I can accept that. Just shows how ridicilously bad your moderating is. Its more funny that sad, actually

[Augustinus]

To be honest, there should not be a rule violation such as 'ff abuse'. Only exception would be stats manipulation, but since we are such a small community I don't think this would ever be performed again. Just change the ff vote to 4/4 and remove ff abuse from the rule table.

I also think that it is really horrible to even ban a player after having to endure a total tk game. The moderation team has sometimes an overly formalistic approach at judging cases.

[ratedlol]

I want you to take a look at the game and make the following claims:
1. Enemy team is worse players than us
2. THe guy who went 3/0 with halfbreed is not a dead lane
3. We had good rolls
Look at our rolls and show me a way for us to win that game.

You don't even know what the other team is doing. They could do worse. By not even giving the game a chance, you cost another player to lose.

Are you even reading what has happened in the game Astros / watched the replay yourself^^? Seems like a incorrect/stupid respond towards what Nina wrote. "they could do worse" isn't an option in a scenario like this. Please stay realistic or let another mod respond, else this is just a personal issue that you have with Nina.

[IamHodor]

In my opinion, moderators should consider all kind of aspects that made one or severals players breaking a rule.
The rule break is clear, 3 people wanted to !ff and the last one wanted to play this game, so it is Indeed an !ff abuse case.
However, that game was really hard to win, unpleasant to play as Nina stated it and the majority did ff because they thought it was unwinninabe, so the reason why they forfeit is legit. I assume that all of thoses 3 players that broke this rule didn't have history on that offense. Also, they could not know that pintuna (the guy that reported them) didn't want to !ff.
Therefore, I think that Nina and the 2 others deserve a punishment, so they will ask for their mate opinion before !ff to make sure that this will not happen again in the future.
In the end, I think that, according to all aspects that I have listed, a warning would have been enough. 3 days ban for this case looks absurd to me.

[AmnoN]

@ninahagen I understand your perspective to an extent, however, why not at least wait to see how much you leaked exactly? I have watched it and have seen bigger comebacks before - the spawn would have held his lane. I would have at least waited to see if you had to king/ use a heal.

Again, it certainly looked bad, but the !ff was still premature since you did not even bother to see how many leaks there would have been.

[NinaHagen]

Thanks for the supporting posts. I feel exactly the same way.

And to the mods, who dont care:
Maybe you should consider the perspective of the player. As I have stated, rules get broken all the time on 1200 bot. There are several players who tk almost every game they play in. I get reported for something very minor, and i get a 3 day ban. I get that ban on sunday morning. The "offence" was days before that. Like most players I work during the week and the weekend is the best time to play, since there are more players, better players and more games.
I dont care about the ff rule. I really dont. I do not respect it. I do not respect the opinions and the arguments you made, since they are an outright joke to me. It really feels like you either never play on the 1200 bot or you just dont care. Rules are in place to ensure a good playing environment and the quality of the games. And mods are there for the same thing.
If you use ridicilous rules to ban ppl on sunday morning and give them troll responses, while the 1200 bot is going to shits all you do is kill the bot even faster. If that is your goal, you are doing a good job. If that is not your goal maybe you should reconsider what you are doing here. I play with ppl who force sends almost every game, ghost information to enemy team, intentionally ob to kill carry lanes, afk, miss sends. These are things that are killing the fun of playing. Ppl should be banned for this. Instead you ban me on sunday morning for not wanting to suffer through a bad game that we were 95% sure to lose anyways.
If you think you are right in doing what you do, so be it.

[Quetra]

Maybe you should consider the perspective of the player. As I have stated, rules get broken all the time on 1200 bot.

This is irrelevant. If they break rules you can report them and they will be banned. Doesn't mean you can break rules yourself. If they aren't reported that's on other people in the game not us.

1) No i did not. I do not need to. I remember the game well. And everything i said was true. Was going to be 80 leaks easy. maybe 70. Doenst really matter.

FFing before you even see the leak is still incredibly premature, however much you think you will leak. Especially with warriors when it's RNG how much you will leak to some extent.
It's obvious you had 3 awful lanes vs warrs, but you also had spawn which could have held quite a decent amount especially if he got lucky with the stuns.

Regardless, it doesn't matter. You can't just ff everytime you get a disadvantage on 1, I've seen people argue the same for having bad rolls too. The game has just started and anything could happen. You don't know their rolls, you don't know the strength of their play during the game, their calls, your calls. And even if a huge leak on 1 gives you a very small chance to win, there is still a chance. Ffing the game wastes everyone's time as the game has not even started.

To !ff the game must evidently be lost.

The game was not evidently lost. Evidently lost means the units have already leaked and are about to take your heals to 0 and kill you 100% of the time. When the game is 3 minutes in there is always a chance.

Now whether you agree with whether there should be a rule governing how ff is used is a moot point. The rules are there for everyone to read and follow whether you agree with them or not. They are there to regulate behaviour in a way that we think improves the game experience overall. If a certain mode should be allowed, !draw required for a disconnect, !ff used whenever, 120g+ delay allowed, these are all subjects that people may have different opinions on. That doesn't mean you can pick and choose which rules you agree with to follow.

This is a very clear case of ff abuse as the rules currently stand. If you disagree with it then you could make a suggestion and see if there is public support for changing the rule. We do not do these things to spite you, the rules are there to improve the game experience. If enough people think it would be better if you can !ff whenever then it could perhaps be changed.

Appeal denied.