Masterkiller aka Furion:kd

[kunkka]

"No kd this game"

https://entgaming.net/openstats/game/11711462/
https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=11711234
https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=11710857
https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=11710838

[Edgeofchaos]

Every so often someone comes along who tries to maintain a high KD while losing as much as possible. If you've ever played with/against him, you know that he has no interest in winning. All he does is sit there out of the fight until his team dies, then goes in and kills a low HP player with dagon and runs with Lothars.

It's bewildering that the moderators are allowing it now; I suppose it's OK as long as you're killing things. I can't wait until someone decides to fountain sit with Zeus and just ult low hp heroes over and over.

It's best to just avoid them when possible. I've never seen the furion[kd] dude win a game.

[Astros]

Every so often someone comes along who tries to maintain a high KD while losing as much as possible. If you've ever played with/against him, you know that he has no interest in winning. All he does is sit there out of the fight until his team dies, then goes in and kills a low HP player with dagon and runs with Lothars.

It's bewildering that the moderators are allowing it now; I suppose it's OK as long as you're killing things. I can't wait until someone decides to fountain sit with Zeus and just ult low hp heroes over and over.

It's best to just avoid them when possible. I've never seen the furion[kd] dude win a game.

The issue is people like Furion[KD] knows how to manipulate the rules just enough to where they aren't going to get banned while also doing enough to not be banned. It becomes tricky because then ban requests would be all over the place rather than having one criteria. You've been a mod before so it shouldn't be a foreign concept, honestly. What he's doing is technically a strategy but the problem is he doesn't do it well enough to actually benefit his team. I go dagon plenty of times on Furion but I am usually engaging or the first to gank. What he does is KS, run away, buy a few wards (for his own benefit, of course) and just run around pretending he cares about winning when in reality, he just wants to troll around to amuse himself. It's possible to ban someone for doing what he does but since he knows how to manipulate between the rules, it usually is just a scenario where his teammates end up getting pissed and reviewing the ban request ends up being a waste of time because there isn't anything ban-worthy (according to the rules).

[nitromon]

Astros' conclusion about this Furion player in the BRQ is almost word for word exactly what I said about this Furion in the past (linked in that discussion), about how some of these players "tread the line of what is allowed just enough to not get banned."

I tend to give people chances. I'm not sure if he is doing exactly that again in other games, I actually watched that replay trying to catch him. But in that replay, honestly he wasn't doing that. Perhaps the game didn't last long enough for me to really see it but he ganked, helped teammates, warded, and cleaned up. It was a pretty clean play, which is why I was surprised with the votekicks, especially from aims since he is usually a cool player.

I've only played on his team a couple of times in the recent past. One game I remember b/c it was long, he did quite well in that game and played fairly. I'm hoping he's turning over a new leaf, but who knows. I trolled him many times in the past by repicking Furion and Techies, making him play other heroes.

[Astros]

Astros' conclusion about this Furion player in the BRQ is almost word for word exactly what I said about this Furion in the past (linked in that discussion), about how some of these players "tread the line of what is allowed just enough to not get banned."

I tend to give people chances. I'm not sure if he is doing exactly that again in other games, I actually watched that replay trying to catch him. But in that replay, honestly he wasn't doing that. Perhaps the game didn't last long enough for me to really see it but he ganked, helped teammates, warded, and cleaned up. It was a pretty clean play, which is why I was surprised with the votekicks, especially from aims since he is usually a cool player.

I've only played on his team a couple of times in the recent past. One game I remember b/c it was long, he did quite well in that game and played fairly. I'm hoping he's turning over a new leaf, but who knows. I trolled him many times in the past by repicking Furion and Techies, making him play other heroes.

He played terrible that game like he usually does. His team was consistently fighting 4v5's and he would only show up if there was a kill to be had. Considering Furion is already at a huge disadvantage in a team fight, him building straight dagon makes it even worse for his teammates because now they get KS'ed and have nothing to show for it after battling a 4v5. I'm not sure what your definition of helping is but the only reason he did early ganks is because he would be banned if he didn't/he could use the opportunity to get a kill and get his dagon quicker. The wards, let's be honest... his main intention is to have vision so he can clean up kills. Do you really think he purchased them thinking, "my team needs the vision so I am going to spend the gold I received by KSing them on these wards." The guy isn't dumb nor smart. He's just very fortunate there is no rule that specifically bans players for KSing or he would be banned a million times over by now.

[Sylvanas]

I've gotten people banned for that in the past. I'm not sure where the line is and ent certainly gives a big benefit of doubt, but if you can pinpoint good examples in a replay, you can certainly get people banned for it.

[Edgeofchaos]

Surprisingly furion[kd] is actually pretty good if he plays seriously. I don't understand what kind of happiness he gets from losing games.

Still, I do understand. Thanks for trying, Astros.

I don't think there should be a rule against KSing. The KSing isn't the problem, it's that he only KSes and doesn't actually help. There's no objective "line" to be drawn, it's moderator discretion.

What the rules say has never been the important part. I joined ENT in 2012, and became a moderator in 2013. Since then, I believe the rules have changed one time - to allow fountain farming (that's right, fountain farming used to be bannable. It ended up being changed like 3 times and finally allowed. Anyone remember these times?) But the rule enforcement has absolutely changed as the moderators changed. ENT had its own problems back then but I can say for sure that this Furion would have been banned back in 2013 ent. Of course it wasn't all good because this was also the time when Agreements banned someone for 1 year for flaming him ingame and deleted all the complaints, until uakf found out and banned Agreements. Still one of my favorite drama episodes. Complaints was even more useless back then than it is today since people were allowed to deny complaints against themselves. Good times...

[nitromon]

I'm not sure what your definition of helping is but the only reason he did early ganks is because he would be banned if he didn't/he could use the opportunity to get a kill and get his dagon quicker. The wards, let's be honest... his main intention is to have vision so he can clean up kills. Do you really think he purchased them thinking, "my team needs the vision so I am going to spend the gold I received by KSing them on these wards." The guy isn't dumb nor smart. He's just very fortunate there is no rule that specifically bans players for KSing or he would be banned a million times over by now.

You could be right about everything you've mentioned here about Furion of course and I do see what you're saying as I've said the same things myself before about him. However, I guess I just tend to give people chances, it is the only way to stay unbiased and objective. All games aside, just this replay alone, DG is clearly the game ruiner as indicated early on his general attitude. He created a new account, doesn't care about anything, mocks everyone, and his first of many !ff were unwarranted especially the 1st one where Scourge was winning by tower counts and kill counts. Then laughs about it when his team lost.

Furion, on the other hand, brilliant save on pink at 2 min which he didn't have to. He TPed into lane just to save pink. First dagon use was in a gank. Then 2nd use also a gank at bot. He warded for team or for himself, regardless it is warding. He was playing, he most definitely wasn't just waiting around for last hits. We've all seen those players with BH, SA, with dagons hanging around invisible to KS. This wasn't it. I think he has a history of trolling and that history carries on with him and he's getting a bad rap and people not giving him a chance when he actually does play.

If I am correct, an SA or BH who waits by invisible all game, doesn't help defend, push, or fight with teammates but only last hit to KS, then this is actually bannable and I've seen players like these get banned. If this Furion is doing just that, he could be banned, there is no way around it.

But like I've said, I don't actually play with him much, so I can't tell if he has a pattern like that anymore. I just know he did before, it pissed me off enough to avoid him. But I gave him a couple of chances and I was impressed with his playing at least in those games. However, in that BRQ, I only watched that replay and evaluated that replay alone.

I'm a very team oriented player. I get really agitated with selfish players. Personally, I think people shouldn't neutral at start if your lane partner disagrees. That's why I avoid laning with Furions, LC, Naix, SK, etc... who will go off jungling and I cringe whenever there is one on my team. I'm just saying, if he is doing hiding and dagon KS all game, I would be the first to get upset. I simply don't see it in that replay. That's all.

[pinheadlarry]

(that's right, fountain farming used to be bannable. It ended up being changed like 3 times and finally allowed. Anyone remember these times?)

Oh I remember.

Nabo=Stage4PancreaticCancer.PNG (44.06 KiB) Viewed 6662 times

But I'm glad to see that its 2019 and certain mods still use the rules page about as much as the Ask Jeeves search engine. I was recently banned for tossing a fountain farmer into the fountain.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=140973&hilit=pinheadlarry

We are still living in glorious times Edge.

[kunkka]

The issue is people like Furion[KD] knows how to manipulate the rules just enough to where they aren't going to get banned while also doing enough to not be banned... It's possible to ban someone for doing what he does but since he knows how to manipulate between the rules, it usually is just a scenario where his teammates end up getting pissed and reviewing the ban request ends up being a waste of time because there isn't anything ban-worthy (according to the rules).

When players like Furion[KD] becomes good at staying in the borderline of rule breaking, I guess this is when players like myself is needed.

What we do is kinda of similar to mods in this case - Mods punish game ruiners and change their behaviors by banning them, while I punished Furion[KD] and changed his behaviors by beating him over and over again and spam "no kd this game" ECKS DEE! Now he doesn't even pick furion when I'm vs him, proven by replays in the 1st post - he picked magina vs my storm, necro vs my ES, etc.

[nitromon]

I was recently banned for tossing a fountain farmer into the fountain.

No, you weren't. Replay was watched and determined he wasn't fountain farming. So why do you persist in this lie?

Like the other BRQ on Furion, replay was watched, he never bought boots and people still claimed "he sold boots"

Seriously, wtf is wrong with you people?

This is why I don't play anymore. That and tired of the 40 min wait for a game just to get a bunch of stackers, farmers, ruiners, etc...

This game is suppose to be fun, now it is just a bunch of juveniles abusing vote kicks, lying about rules, lying to get people kicked, etc...

I mean, seriously? Talks about banning global bear strategy? When there are players like you who is "famous" for your 40 minutes solo farm with alch claiming you'll carry and then don't even bother to get a BKB and gets destroyed? I never play on your team. I see you, I just play support and get a guinsoo then let my carries handle your useless alch at 40 minutes, IF your 4v5 team survives that long. (where is that facepalm icon)

----------------------

I've been reluctant to move on to DOTA 2, b/c as I've said I'm an old man... and just want to let my memory of DOTA die with DOTA 1. But dang, I hate watching it die this way. And this is not the memory I want to keep for DOTA. For a while I felt this place was improving, but lately...

These are the type of players left on ent:
- ruiners: People who just do their own things, don't play with team, farms for 40 minutes.
- feeders: People who simply don't bother to learn basic things such as switching agil tread to STR tread on weak heroes to stay alive early, buy early items such as RoA, etc... or very simply carrying TPs, etc... or warding for vision.
- stackers: bunch of jokers who talk big like they're pros but they're afraid to play against each other or play without each other. Then all they do is farm, won't help team, only helps out when enemies are low or they got their big items.
- overly competitive toxic players: Yeah, it's a game and you play to win. But seriously some of these people are having a stroke in the games. Don't lose your head b/c people don't play the way you play or want them to play.

Problem with a lot of what is left on ENT are players who have no respect for the game and no respect for each other.

People try to find me in the games and they think if they spot a sillybear or a dagon spectre that is all I play. I've played with most of you many times you just never knew. Think back in your games for the past several years. Whenever there's an Oracle that actually ults his teammates so they can escape while he dies, that's me. Whenever there's a blink techies that would blink into the middle of a team fight to set up stasis, mines, and suicides so you can get the kill, that's me. Whenever you see a Treant that armors your whole team from minute 1 so you can stay longer in the lanes and constantly saves teammates from death, that's me. When you have a lane buddy that dies or goes back to the fountain, but returns with a healing salve for you, that's me.

If I post a BRQ for every single time someone vk abuse, flame, and what not, there'll be dozens of BRQs in the forum from me right now. Almost every single game there's something.

LEARN to respect the game. LEARN to respect each other.

And you "pro" players, set an example for others to follow.

Otherwise, well.. player pool getting smaller and smaller, but more importantly the quality of players are reduced more and more to only the 4 types above.

Good luck with aaaaallllll that.

[Edgeofchaos]

Killing the fountain is hard AF and if you do it, you should be allowed to get all the kills you want.

Whatever it's not like he's even a mod anymore and that was years ago anyways.

[pinheadlarry]

No, you weren't. Replay was watched and determined he wasn't fountain farming. So why do you persist in this lie?

Well when 2 other experienced dota players make an effort to comment on the post to deny the BRQ then that says something. It's just simply a case of the banter boi doing what he does best.

When there are players like you who is "famous" for your 40 minutes solo farm with alch claiming you'll carry and then don't even bother to get a BKB and gets destroyed?

Son, its 2019 and you still don't understand what alch's ult does if you even consider getting a bkb. Base attack time is a simple dota mechanic that seems to elude so many "pros".

Secondly it is 27 mins of pure free farm after getting level 6 in lane by 6 mins. All I need is a team that can minorly prevent a fast loss of towers. After that, I'm practically All State Inc. since I insure a guaranteed win (minus a good techies, tiny or centaur). They key is my build is unstoppable 1v1 and holds up well even 2v1. Therefore my team just needs to handle 4v3s for the rest of the game for an ez win. And if the enemy team groups I will just be a dirty slut and drop your towers faster than a Saudi-backed airplane operator on September 11th. while you grind a 5 v 4 push.

But what you should do is make another of your garbage hero guides for alchemist so that I have have a good laugh. Your guides are more misleading than a Dominican Republic timeshare offer.

[Sylvanas]

Son, its 2019 and you still don't understand what alch's ult does if you even consider getting a bkb. Base attack time is a simple dota mechanic that seems to elude so many "pros".

BAT is a simple dota, what? wc3 mechanic that's irrelevant if you're stunned.

Let me guess, you learned how it works 15 minutes ago and decided you should farm all game and get 6 butterflies because you got really excited that your alchemist's base attack speed changed and just simply kind of forgot that the game, your team and the concept of time still existed.

[pinheadlarry]

Let me guess, you learned how it works 15 minutes ago and decided you should farm all game and get 6 butterflies because you got really excited that your alchemist's base attack speed changed and just simply kind of forgot that the game, your team and the concept of time still existed.

Do you normally just ignore the ult on hero? Who cares about the BAT when you can just go eblade+dagon right? Sounds like you're bitter from those games where I used alch and tilled you harder than a monstanto corn farm.