Revert LTD 1,2k Bot back to 1,1k

[Akitos]

Hey guys,
been a while since I posted something here. I just recently started playing LTD again after years of absense and well.. It's quite dead here, isn't it? I don't mean to be rude, but the activity dropped significantly. Having to wait 10-20 minutes on average for a mega game to start is insane compared to what I remember.

Before we get to my suggestion (which was already spoiled in the title anyway *duh*), let's talk about the WHY.

The 1,2k (formerly 1,1k) bot that we have today got introduced in back in august 2014. Back then it was hard to even convince the staff to release such a bot, because they already had "high rated" bots in the past. However, with the introduction of the inhouse league (lihl), they died out, as the amount of players wanting to play high quality LTD games was simply to low at the time.

The demand for such an environment drastically increased once players tried to play the new yolo meta in pub games. You see, leaking on purpose to boost your economy was something completly unheard of before and the general public had no idea this strat existed. Thus it was very hard to even play this strat in pub games, without being flamed or even reported. However, with some players still doing it, there would also be some players in their games who saw this strat and acknowledged its potential. Making them interested in learning it themself. The amount of players being dedicated about LTD kept increasing and games on the Mega bot would literally fill in 2-10 seconds. It was quite hard to get quality games going, as more skilled players would generally leave if <1k elo players joined on their side. This resulted in many players waiting for a lobby to fill, in order to instantly join the next one. There were often so many players waiting that you could fill multiple lobbies with them.

Being one of the most active pub players at the time I realised the demand for a high rated environment that is not lihl and made a suggestion to implement this bot. However, it was declined, saying that such a bot would not succeed and it not needed.

Only 4 weeks later (9th of August in 2014), on behalf of another similar suggestion (2 weeks after mine), the bot was then introduced anyway. As the demand kept rising during this short amount of time.

On the 9th of April in 2015 the bot was changed from 1,1 to 1,2k based on this suggestion. Back then it was pretty damn easy to get to 1,1k and it wasn't really an entry barrier at all. 1,2k was somewhat the same, as skilled players would still easily get to it playing on the mega bot with just a little more time invested (which really wasn't too bad considering the fast queue times back then). However, the bot being 1,2k opposed to 1,1k still stopped A LOT of "trash" players joining the bot without knowing what it is, and then ruining the fun for all others players involved. Back then the games were still hosted on BattleNet and as I already mentioned, there were MANY MANY more players and thus 1,2k back then was literally nothing compared to what 1,2k is today. So by changing the bot from 1,1 to 1,2k, all it really did was decrease the amount of players that randomly joined the bot without knowing what they're getting themselfs into.

Just look at the top ranks today. There is 3 players above 2k playing on the 1,2k+ bot now and you're at page 1 with as "little" as 1787 elo. Back when the change was made, you would likely not even be on page 10 with this rating. The average elo is significantly lower than years ago and red.rum being on rank 1 with 2021 elo is likely comparable to my rank 1 with ~2240. I am honestly not even sure if the rating I managed to get on the 1,2k bot years ago (~2240) is even possible today. As fewer players result in less elo being available.

The same applies to the 1,2k entry that the bot still has till today. Remember: this change is almost 5 years old now!

Being forced to use the WC3Connect tool in order to play on ENT is a huge entry barrier to begin with. On top of that you then have to deal with crazy long waiting times for mega games, in order to get yourself to 1,2k, to be able to play proper games with "lihl like" rules.

(Before I say all this, please note that this is not meant to be for bragging. You'll see why later) I am a former top tier player who has been around through the early days of this bot. I have helped establish "lihl like" rules on this bot and taught a whole generation of players on how to play the yolo meta. I was the first to reach 2k, 2,1k and 2,2k on the 1,1/1,2k bot and have maintained rank 1 between 2200 and ~2240 for months. I quit LTD probably 2-3 years ago, but did play LTD 2 from release till end of season 2. In LTD 2 I've also been rank 1 multiple times and even won the first official tournament (Masters Cup). Up until recently, I literally made my living playing LTD 2 (as a streamer) and even did the official commentary on some tournaments. So yeah, one might say I do understand this game just a tiny bit. I am without a doubt insanely washed up when it comes to LTD, especially since I wasn't here when Broud3r did all of those weird changes (of which some I still hate... I just leaked 11 with 1,8k value 4 Ygg TOK build, like wtf did you do Broud3r... but that's another story). I do a decent chunk of mistakes right now and are certainly not even close to being a top tier player anymore, BUT, and here it comes:

I dare to say that I am still the kind of player that should be allowed to play on the 1,2k bot.

Would you disagree? (If you really do, please tell me why lol) No? Well, then how come that it feels almost like an impossible task for me to get there?

Not only does it take significantly longer to find games, it also got a lot harder to win these compared to back then. You can't really dodge players that you know will significantly lower your chances of winning (those who're 5/0 with EA on 7 and shit like that), because this would mean waiting another 15 minutes (which is impossible for me as a streamer!). So I end up having to play with them, which is usually a very unpleasent experience. And if it isn't for those guys, there is the ones that don't play on mega because they're too bad for the 1,2k bot, but instead those who simply prefer being able to merge, antistuck and/or cross. A couple years ago, when I was still active, and especially when we made the change going from 1,1 to 1,2k, the average mega game consisted of players who were so bad, that it was close to impossible to lose unless you had someone hard inting. This is not the case today.

You know why? It's pretty simple: those players, who were the majority, are still playing on BattleNet! Those are the players that did not care for rules, an elo system and all that good shit. You just lost a whole type of player. And this type of player happened to be the one filling the games. So now that they're gone, all that's left is mostly dedicated players, who take the challenge of installing WC3Connect and using an outdated version, in order to play games with ELO and rule enforcements. So it should be obvious that the average game got a lot harder compared to what they were when ENT was still operating on BattleNet.

In addition to that the majority of players I encountered who were between 1 and 1,2k (some 1,3-1,4k) didn't seem like players who were simply too bad for the 1,2k bot, like it was the norm back then. They were doing decent calls, had decent builds, knew yolos that I've never heard of before and overall seemed just fine. They were certainly not easy opponents and I came to the conclusion that most of them are simply there because they prefer to be able to merge, antistuck and/or cross. These kinds of players existed back in the days aswell. But you'd encounter them way less, as there were more other types of players.

That being said, you need to know how to deal with merge and how to estimate it in order to get to 1,2k without wasting even more time. Which feels awful. Like. Merging didn't even exist back when I was still active. The only time one would ever do it was to hold 20 after both teams somehow survived 17. Now it's completly meta on the mega bot and that changed the whole dynamic of the game. But the thing is: it only changed it for the mega bot...

And for a player like myself, the mega bot is really nothing but a necessity in order to be able to play on the 1,2k bot again. I don't even want to learn merge as it's not even allowed on the 1,2k bot. Like, over the last couple years I've returned to LTD many times, and it was never an issue getting to 1,2k pretty fast in order to be able to play. Now however is the first time I am attempting it since BattleNet support has stopped, and jesus christ, it's way too hard and especially time consuming.

When I check the 1,2k lobbies in WC3Connect I often see names that I am still familiar with and I'd love to play with those guys again, but holy shit.. The amount of time I'd have to invest just to be able to play there is too god damn high!! And that's coming from a former top tier player. Imagine what the barrier of entry must be like for newer or less experienced returning players.

I recently started streaming ENT LTD again and I am even considering doing a video guide on how to connect etc., but I am not even sure if that's a good idea honestly. I would love to get my community involved with this game, which makes sense considering I built it up in LTD 2 and many of them have never played LTD(1) before. But most of them also dislike crossing, merging and all that shit and would prefer to play solo lanes. I keep telling them that the game is different on the 1,2k bot, and that it's much more fun there (because for me it simply is. I really don't enjoy this merging nonsense), but I can't even show it to them, because it takes literally forever to get there.

So yeah, here is my suggestion:

Please lower the rating necessary to join the 1,2k bot to 1,1k (or even 1050), as the 1,2k requirement is simply too high in today's times. The 1,2k bot was never meant to be a high elo bot, as that was, and still is lihl's job. It was simply a small barrier of entry to filter out some undesired players. However, the type of players that you had to filter out back then wouldn't even make it to 1050 today. Let alone 1,1 or 1,2k. The WC3Connect tool alone filters out most of the undesired players from the 1,2k bot, which is why this requirement is simply not necessary anymore and only stops people from wanting to try out this game!

Thanks for reading.

[Augustinus]

Nice to see you coming back to this community. I agree with what you stated above.

What you suggest has been discussed here recently: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=139509&start=15
I personally don't understand why the suggestion was turned down, since most 1200+ players who gave their input their argued in favour of lowering the elo threshold to 1100.

Regarding your recent attempts to hit 1200 elo, I strongly recommend taking the red spot an picking nm mode. This will not only eliminate the necessity to merge/cross but also drastically reduce the time spent on one game.

[Akitos]

Well, that suggestion has been 4 months ago. I can only assume it has gotten worse since then, since I doubt the player numbers are going up at this point. ENT has peaked long time ago. Time to accept that I guess.

So yeah, I hope this will not instantly be turned down, refering to the recent discussion. I mean, my suggestion back then to implement this bot in the first place was turned down aswell... Only to have it added 1 month later on behalf of a second, similar, suggestion which happened 2 weeks after mine. This time around it's 4 months. Maybe listen to me for once

And yea, forcing -nm mode is a good option, but it sucks for many players who enjoy the kind of gameplay the mega bot offers. It'll also make many people leave, increasing the time spent in lobby.

EDIT - forced a lot of -nm today. That certainly made things A LOT easier for me, as most players I encountered failed miserably once they were forced to play without merge. Got to 1,2k now, going 11-0 today thanks to mostly -nm games. Either way, I still believe 1,2k should be lowered to 1,1k.

[gloom]

Sad to see such a write up being ignored =)

Overall i agree with it, but i fear if more players go to 1200 from mega, mega gonna get empty and therefore it will get hard to even get to 1100.

[Krocis]

we actualy need it 1400+

[Akitos]

Sad to see such a write up being ignored =)

Overall i agree with it, but i fear if more players go to 1200 from mega, mega gonna get empty and therefore it will get hard to even get to 1100.

The question is how many of the guys between 1,1 and 1,2k really want to go on the 1,2k bot. I feel like most of them prefer mega anyway for crossing, merging etc.. But yeah, it's definitly a possability that mega could suffer from this. Although I guess that's rather unlikely.

[oceano]

http://eurobattle.net/threads/210387-Plans-for-2019

This is the solution in my honest opinion. We must merge with eurobattle.net. Both communities will have benefits as player database would double. Meaning logically more players and more games so no need to revert nothing. Keep it like this. It`s best imho.
Cen stated eurobattle.net is moving from 1.28 to 1.29.1 and than to 1.30.1. Why dont someone talk to him and move Ent bots to private server which is also being used by ebnet. After all Entgaming and Eurobattle.net from this year on will be using the same Patch.

[Augustinus]

I don't see that merging with eurobattle.net would target the different situation regarding the bots ENT18 and ENT31. As mentioned by the OP, the initial reason to raise elo to 1200+ has vanished and thus we don't need a high elo barrier anymore to enter the hr bot. It would be consequent to make access easier again.

[Anda]

Dont know if there is any need for a change tbh. You can simply restore your stats, then you have your elo again First reset is free, every other one is only 3 Dollars and it helps ent to keep stuff running.

[devaztate]

we actualy need it 1400+

this 1000000%

[uint8_t]

Dont know if there is any need for a change tbh. You can simply restore your stats, then you have your elo again First reset is free, every other one is only 3 Dollars and it helps ent to keep stuff running.

It takes 20+min to start a normal LTD game. It's impossible to climb like that. I was a 1200+ player but I was inactive and my stats got reset. Now I am stuck in the normal games. 1200+ even has more players than normal LTD, it's painfully slow to start a normal game.
Just merge 1200+ and normal LTD games.
The people who are willing to download a custom wc3 client + WC3Connect are way more practiced in LTD than back in the pub games. 1200+ isn't necessary anymore.

Just apply the 1200+ rules to the normal LTD and let the 1200+ guys teach the normal LTD guys. This way the community grows together and games start faster.

[Anda]

Dont know if there is any need for a change tbh. You can simply restore your stats, then you have your elo again First reset is free, every other one is only 3 Dollars and it helps ent to keep stuff running.

It takes 20+min to start a normal LTD game. It's impossible to climb like that. I was a 1200+ player but I was inactive and my stats got reset. Now I am stuck in the normal games. 1200+ even has more players than normal LTD, it's painfully slow to start a normal game.
Just merge 1200+ and normal LTD games.
The people who are willing to download a custom wc3 client + WC3Connect are way more practiced in LTD than back in the pub games. 1200+ isn't necessary anymore.

Just apply the 1200+ rules to the normal LTD and let the 1200+ guys teach the normal LTD guys. This way the community grows together and games start faster.

That was denied in the past, since a lot of people want to play mega for cross.
About the stats i dont see the problem, if at 1 point in time you had an account that had over 1200 elo and it got resetted due to inactivity, you can simply ask for the stats to be reset afaik.

[Akitos]

You can't if you're a new player tho Anda. And reaching 1,1k today is certainly way harder than reaching 1,2k 4 years ago. I doubt anyone who was there back then would deny that.

Merging would be a bad idea btw. Mega players don't all want to play on the 1,2k bot. Majority of them simply prefers merge/cross.

[milfhunter96]

I was the first to reach 2k, 2,1k and 2,2k on the 1,1/1,2k bot and have maintained rank 1 between 2200 and ~2240 for months.

May I ask when you hit 2k?

[Bonhart]

Now its rly hard to hit 1200 ELO on Mega bot if u dont have a stack ...