Establishment of a firm policy on "repeat offenders"

[pinheadlarry]

Hello Mods,

I think it would be good if we could come to a consensus on what a "repeat offender" constitutes.

The law of probabilities state that if you try(play) something enough, it(a ban) will happen. For some people who have been here for coming up to a decade and played 1000's of games getting the odd banned for something is essentially inevitable. When handling repeat offenders, I see a great degree of variation among mods where some don't look past 1-2 years, some have zero regard for mitigating factors such as time or games played in between.

@Hazardous has recently stated in: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=140374

With regards to the time period since the last offense, moderators are are encouraged to take into consideration every factor. Therefore, it was okay for @Merex to slightly consider the ban history.

Following that, we've no statue in our own staff-policy that can illegitimate any prior history from any given time.

For clarification, while the above is technically true, it doesn't mean that you should not also take into consideration the time period wherein the offender has remained "clean". >2 years is a long time for sure and should be taken into account.

Yet it seems mods are not abiding by his recommendation as is with the case of this ban request:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=142553

Where a 20 day ban was levied for 5 offenses over 7+ years and 5000+ games .

We are no longer talking about a delta of 5 games between one mod and the next but multiple WEEKS. I'd say this is reasonably concerning... My previous ban (administered by the late Astros who had a clear grudge against me) was for 7 days.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=141535&p=549343&hilit=pinheadlarry#p549343

To jump from 7 to 20 days for another even if that offense was doubled, we still have almost a week of delta between these mods.

This is extremely punishing to ENT users who maintain the same account. Most of the ent community uses a variety of accounts and easily evade repeat offender bans. For example, *** DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS*** anyone could legally while UNBANNED spoof their routers MAC, pull a new IP and make a new account, play a good number of clean games and have a reasonably strong chance of evading their history. Therefore, many users who make multiple accounts will not be administered a "repeat offender" ban.

I would appreciate if mods can make a firm quantitative policy that determines what a "repeat offender" is. In my mind, I think it should be "A offender who repeats will be given a longer duration ban. A repeat offender is anyone who commits multiple offenses in X amount of games"

You autoban script already uses this type of formula to ban repeat leavers. It only seems fair to use a similar policy for other bans.

Thank you for your consideration.

[xSAINTx1]

For someone who has played 1000s of games, and for close to a decade, why do you even bother walking the fence of rule breaking and trolling around in-game and on forum? Like, is it really necessary to play/farm for your uber build in a won game, or one where your team is begging for your help and you refuse to cooperate? I'm sure, you have tested it in multiple scenarios, and it is successful most of the time, so what left is there to experiment with man? You think mods actually give a shit about you? Like they barely even complete ban requests, you really think they got it out for you?

Just play normal; play with team when necessary, build normal items with the occasional mix on builds, defend bases when possible etc. You know so few people play, and many, including myself, are on a very short temper with game ruiners. Would you mind just playing standard, and enjoy what people still care to log on and enjoy themselves? Is it really too much to ask?

In my opinion, repeat offenders should be banned 2x for each offense regardless of time in between. The time in between ban requests should not matter, as once you fuck up, you should not make the same mistake twice. If said mistake occurs again, then the punishment is just. I bought and sold linken once, got banned 3 days, but since it was 1st offense, my appeal was successful and ban was lifted. Second offense, I was banned 5 days, and again had appeal sorted out, but had to serve a 36 hour ban (roughly). I would expect that If i sold linkens again, i would be banned 5 days without a chance to appeal for it, and progressively more harsh with repeat offenses. You have had ample time to understand the rules and have seen many ruiners come and go over the years. You should be a role model for the community, but it seems like trolling is more important.

I have played with you a few times, and I don't think you are ruining on purpose, i just think you are a bad player, but maybe were good at some point. Work on playing to win alongside your team, and you will have more fun.

[pinheadlarry]

I'm sure, you have tested it in multiple scenarios, and it is successful most of the time, so what left is there to experiment with man?

I'm not experimenting with it. Its a build that has served me well an won me countless stacked and meepo games. Why do you pick meepo? Obvious answer is to win. I pick alch and build him in a way to win... it's really no different.

Like they barely even complete ban requests, you really think they got it out for you?

I currently don't think Merex does, but it was clear with Banter Boi. There was literally a list of 200+ bans and he cherrypicked mine 2 times.

Would you mind just playing standard, and enjoy what people still care to log on and enjoy themselves?

I would... If dota was a cookie cutter game I would have given it up a long time ago like I did with ENTs legion TD. The amount of rules in that game literally make the only variation your initial roll. I recently saw that they are now banning for inadequate wisp count.... If dota becomes that, I am out. There is a reason you never see me pick noob shit heros like bara or sniper. Why do people view variation as a bad thing, especially when it is not a ruining strategy like my alch build?

In my opinion, repeat offenders should be banned 2x for each offense regardless of time in between.

Well I strongly disagree with that sentiment for the reasons I stated above. But if that is the case, then I still would like to see this made a hard defined rule. But if that is case. I am probably 1-2 bans away from having a ban that will outlast my stats. If that happens I am out. Going AFK can be unavoidable at times. And many bans are subjective (game ruing, refuse to communicate, etc.). Glitch exploit is an objective ban so I'd say there is very little discretion required for those and your repeat policy makes more sense. But I think its harsh when applied to subjective bans.

I have played with you a few times, and I don't think you are ruining on purpose, i just think you are a bad player, but maybe were good at some point.

I know, like last night and I thought we had a pretty good and competitive game. I don't ruin on purpose. I have never said I am a good dota player. I play for leisure and have never had interest in dota leagues or anything of the sort. It is disappointing that few hyper-competitive people decide everyone must play like total pro or GTFO. As a community we are chasing out the laid back people that can play a game of dota and have fun win or lose. Now we are left we a bunch of egomaniacs that QQ if they lost a hard-fought game or have their k/d tarnished because a game lasted a few minutes longer than it needed to.

Work on playing to win alongside your team, and you will have more fun.

I play to win even in these "you ruined the game but yet you somehow won and your team needed you to do it or you would have lost since they couldn't win without you" paradox bans. I have fun playing risky build and heros that have high rewards if successful. I would certainly win more games if I didn't pick heros like pudge or earth spirit frequently and used noob-shit heros, but that is just not as fun to me.

[Merex]

We've a policy on repeated offenders and we do not need you nor owe you any explanation on it.