Minimum # of Games bot

[EdgeOfChaos]

It's already been implemented here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12383

[Palsgraf]

It's already been implemented here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12383

No edge, he's talking about making it te default setting for the normal bots instead of reserving it for the HR bots.

This way we can avoid things like this:

WC3ScrnShot_072013_110350_02.jpg (169.27 KiB) Viewed 787 times

Once normal games require the 20 win minimum, the quality of ENT hosted games will increase significantly.

[teller55]

"how do you screen shot in win7?"

lolz noob paly

[urogard]

I apologize in advance for thread hijack, but partially it's a suggestion extension of this

Would it be possible to get one of the LoD autohosting bots adjusted to whatever will be setup at the end
Currently there's 5 autohosts

[ENT] DotA LoD -sdems6bod2 #39 0/10
[ENT] DotA LoD -sds6bod2 #14 9/10
[ENT] DotA LoD -sds6d2 #14 0/10
[ENT] DotA LoD -sds6d2em #7 1/10
[ENT] DotA LoD sds6d2 ABAL #1 0/10

I have no stats about which one is the most used, but my guess would be the AutoBALance one is used least
and I would hope that -sds6bod2 is used most so the high level autohost could be hosting this (but whichever bot starts most games should get it)

[BurritoCarcass]

The 20 win minimum needs to implemented on the dota AP hosting bot, not just the others. I think there should also be the stay percentage thing. Stay of 90%<= X and a leave of 5%>= X. It's more often then not that AP games are ruined by consistent leavers and/or smurfs who have no idea what they are doing. This is an acceptable to keep the bots clear of game ruiners.

[EdgeOfChaos]

Why extend it to all bots? Seeing that the bot is still on game #1 after the automessages and forum advertising, I'd say the majority of users don't care about this.

[Palsgraf]

Why extend it to all bots? Seeing that the bot is still on game #1 after the automessages and forum advertising, I'd say the majority of users don't care about this.

@edgeofchaos First, let me say I am NOT suggesting we move this to all bots, but only the most popular DotA bots (and LoD if those players want it).

Second, the reason no one has played an HR game is two-fold:
1) Marketing -- that is, HR has long been a neglected game, and even though there are announcements telling people that the rules of entry have changed, most people ignore in-game announcements as they are busy concentrating on the game in front of them. Changing the rules of entry for the normal DotA bots and creating "noob" bots would eliminate this problem.

2) Chicken-and-egg -- that is, no one wants to join a game that takes a long time for the lobby to fill. People only have so much patience and so much free time. If others knew that it would not take long for the game lobby to fill, they would join the game. The problem is, how do you get over that initial hurdle of getting enough people to join so that the lobby fills quickly? Easy. Make the 20 win minimum and decent stay rate requirement for the normal DotA bots, and create "noob" bots for people who do not meet the requirements to build up the requisite number of wins.

Finally, I know why you do not want this to go into effect. You're a smurfer. You love to sign on with new accounts such as "elofarmer" or "happysmurf" or "sadsmurf" or "eloplease" or "edge17" 18, 19, 20, 21.... You probably have one of the longest alias pages of any player here on ENT, and this would affect your ability to smurf and elo snipe in pub games.

I get it. It's fun playing on a new account where everyone thinks you're a noob, and then owning everyone who underestimated you. But the fact is, most people like to know the skills of their teammates and opponents ahead of time. That is why we have the elo system in the first place -- but smurfing completely undermines that system.

Furthermore, the benefit of keeping ban dodgers out of normal DotA games is so great as to undermine any possible argument you have against implementing this.

[EdgeOfChaos]

1) Name it something else than HR then. I don't see how this is a reason to change the already existing bots to a misleading name, like NOOB games. As for ignoring the announcements, this is true. How about this? When we confirm a ban request where this is relevant, we tell people that there are lobbies that keep those type of players out.

2) There's some truth to this. But, if this was completely true, no new bots would ever get filled, and some things like the RAND bot has quite a bit of popularity for a new bot. If this was a valuable addition to most players, it would be used.

That's true, I like smurfing. Longest page? I doubt it, that's only showing like 1/2 of my aliases anyways.

I don't play on new accounts so that everyone thinks I'm a noob. In fact, if anyone asks about who I really am, I tell them unless I have a good reason not to. Most people like to know skill level before game? Great, that's why we have the alias checker. Someone could look at it, see my highest games alias, SD that and see my real ELO.

Stats ruin the experience anyways. Why do you care so much about the SD system? All it does is promote teamswapping so that you get a 20 minute waste of time, predecided game for 0.05 elo every game. I would be fine with it if it was personal stats or something, but I HATE it when I join a game on my 1600 account, and instantly all the other high ELOs join my team, and we get a shitty, boring game.

As for the keeping ban dodgers out part: It may keep some ban dodgers out, but others actually care about their stats. For instance, I'm in the process of catching the third magiccokie account, and it has 170 games on it. And then the other ban dodgers can go to the "noob" lobby, or other games if they want. A ban dodger determined enough can easily get through this system. Also, it's not only ban dodgers like magiccookie who care about stats, a week or so ago I banned a peter-ban account, who was intentionally throwing games, and got up to nearly 30 games before getting reported by me (some were wins after he got kicked). Those type of players could join too.

[Palsgraf]

If you get caught ban dodging, you get a 1 year ban (which automatically strips your stats). That means you will no longer be able to join one of these games from that account.

If someone who is banned has a few accounts with enough wins on it, they will eventually run out of accounts as they are caught and stripped. From then on, only payers who aren't ban dodging will be able to play on these bots.

As for your game ruiner example (with 30 wins), that is easily prevented. As soon as this person ruins a game and is kicked, he can be banned. If he plays from that account again and ruins again after being banned, he gets banned longer. Eventually (before 30 games, for sure) he will have been banned long enough to be stripped.

In addition, this player would not make the minimum stay percentage cut bc his only wins come from games he was kicked before he could throw completely.

Thus, another game ruining ban dodger kept out of these bots.

As to your RAND example- I assume that is because it is the only way to play that map on ENT. DotA, on the other hand, has 4 APEM bots alone (us/ca; euro; autobal; HR). Good luck filling HR (notwithstanding its misnomer).

The good news is, pub stompers can continue to pub stomp on the new "noob" bots if they want to. The rest of us that just want a fun, competitive, ban-dodger-free game will play on the normal bots. @edgeofchaos

[EdgeOfChaos]

The rest of us that just want a fun, competitive, ban-dodger-free game will play on the normal bots. @edgeofchaos

Apparently not, as it's still on #1 after 5 days and tons of advertising. Let the mode stand by itself, if it's a valuable mode, it will be played.

[Palsgraf]

The rest of us that just want a fun, competitive, ban-dodger-free game will play on the normal bots. @edgeofchaos

Apparently not, as it's still on #1 after 5 days and tons of advertising. Let the mode stand by itself, if it's a valuable mode, it will be played.

Way to completely ignore everything said above that addresses and undermines your position.

[uakf.b]

Majority of players don't qualify, so it doesn't make sense to swap them. Can change gamename, but to what?

[Palsgraf]

Majority of players don't qualify, so it doesn't make sense to swap them. Can change gamename, but to what?

Can you add a stat showing how many players meet the qualifications? I also have no problem lowering the stay rate threshold to 80%. I have a hard time most players do not have at least 20 wins and a stay rate of 80%.

I think we should at least discuss this at our next meeting before a decision is made one way or another.

If we decide this is not the way to go, we can at least discuss possible new names for the HR bots.

[NutzSucksHard]

If you get caught ban dodging, you get a 1 year ban (which automatically strips your stats)

False. Now, seventy day without playing you lose it. So banned or not for MH. If you leave an account on the side, forget your password etc... You're dead.

Still, I'm not here for that... What about all the community got the 20 win requirements. (I know it's not going but open your mind!) So now I'm new and come to ent. Try to play. I join NOOB game. No one join (all get 20 win).. 3 min later we only three in lobby. I get piss and swap server to Cash or Void (filling in 1 min). I don't know if you get where I want to go.. It will be like HR... Noob/New Will not be able to play or will take 15 min to wait and hope it start. The wait will be more long than the game, what do you think they'll do? They'll get to somewhere it fill quicker.

EnT is full of pubstomper/elosniping people.

To end, you want to make popular bot to this (20 win). Wich will be APEM AREM for exemple (most popular)? So people that don't have 20 win can't play it? You'll lose a bunch there...

Question : Do people with 20 win are allow to join 'Noob' game? If yes, no one will join these 'normal' games. They'll stay in the noob section and stomp or smurf. :/

Sorry (late here) so my english is worse and poor.. Big time

[EdgeOfChaos]

The rest of us that just want a fun, competitive, ban-dodger-free game will play on the normal bots. @edgeofchaos

Apparently not, as it's still on #1 after 5 days and tons of advertising. Let the mode stand by itself, if it's a valuable mode, it will be played.

Way to completely ignore everything said above that addresses and undermines your position.

You gave nothing that undermines my position. Another example of a game that caught on without having to be manipulatively forced on users was A-BAL. There used to be just APEM, now there's ABAL APEM. And it's very popular. It stood on its own merit, without any (i think) ads, and look at how often it's played now. Modes can stand on their own merit without being forced onto people.

If the HR map had been extremely popular from when it started, I would accept this change, but swapping it now is just forcing a game mode on people who don't care about it.