fiery claw

[seacow]

Fiery claw, an item that give 15damage, +15% attack speed and slowing orb that also does a lethal 25dps for 5sec .
It is a wonderful item for those that employ camping strategy for not only does it give the best damage for its price and the lethal orb is capable of punish mound-harasser as it does a relatively huge over time health lose.

Titan like foss, have a relatively short duration of slow and breeze that has no slow orb at all, this item is good if you are consider have a slow.

Fiery claw cost 35g. Item within its price range, which are trident(40g) and helm of command(30g).
trident add 20damage and 8strenght and helm of command give 10% damage aura and 10 strength.
if we consider 1% represent 1 damage, and since the orb is capable of hurting structure as well then fiery claw is capable of dishing out 55damage.
[spoiler=]since 100% attack speed mean another hit at same given moment(hit twice)as compare to one without a.s bonus
1% attack speed must have represent 1% base dmg, since starting titan damage is 114, it is reasonable to say 1% a.s represent 1dmg[/spoiler]
since 1 strength give 1 damage, then for comparative sake of damage output, trident would be consider of 28damage and helm would be consider of 20damage.
Then obviously for the worth of gold, fiery claw would be an extremely worthy item compare to the other two.

However helm of command and trident can be convert into better item in later game whereas fiery claw can't.
( helm gave more damage with the increase of base damage, damage gain from leveling will still lose to the damage output of claw)


[spoiler=]a little glitch i notice with claw's orb
slow does not apply properly to unit
18:41 titan purchase claw
17:11 hit dranei no slow is observed
17:00 hit demologist no slow is observed
http://atl.entgaming.net/replay/view_re ... 823399.w3g[/spoiler]

[TimmyTheTauren]

Lol. Why do you always try to go in depth explaining these things. No one reads the math and lengthy explanations.

If you have a game with many supports, or a builder who likes walling you out, it's a good game for claws. If it is mostly basers with scarce mid walls, it's not a great game for claws.

Claws can be useful in many scenarios, but if you aren't looking to get close to your 35g back on feed walls, it's best to put the gold towards other more effective items in the long run.

[Marked]

The claws don't do much unless you employ a camping strategy or have a titan with terrible slow.

[TimmyTheTauren]

The claws don't do much unless you employ a camping strategy or have a titan with terrible slow.

Lie less pls

[Burn]

Claws is good for poking supporters (sat/tauren/mag/moprh), and perfect for two-hitting 300hp medium armoured builders. It is a much better pick-up compared to a single trident, so if you already have enough defensive items for sieging (life essence, Super Regen armoured spines, Armour of fate), then just pick-up a fiery claw for a massive DPS boost against both buildings and units for a cost effective item.

When to get Fiery Claws:
When there is not much feed on the map and you lack offensive items for sieging.
When there is a poking supporter.
You are lacking minions for nukes so you have to ward block for a 1 hit + nuke kill on a re-waller.

When not to get Fiery Claws:
For farming mid walls. (Why? Because this is what minions are for, not your main)
As a late game item pick-up. (Why? Because Helm of command scales better into late game with higher STR values and more minions, and the aura stacks with Helm of dominator for minion rushes)

I see a lot of titans buy fiery claw just for farming mid walls. Seriously guys, fiery claw is not a good item for farming mid walls, you're better off with a minion or wotw/ward blocks to get builder kills if you can't manage to get the wotw/ward blocks correctly, now is a good time to start practising. In high skill games, you really need the wotw/ward block scare factor so that they aren't as greedy for gold, and can give you easy kills if they over-extend.

Personally I hardly ever get this item though unless I am overfed (any item works), as builders generally play more safe when I play, and feed is generally scarce since I prefer gibbing most builders for minions.

-Burn

[Marked]

Feed does become scarce once most of the player basis realizes you can play titan. Although playing titan is quite easy they take extreme measures to ensure you lose so Fiery claws might not be the best item to use.

[seacow]

the convertible factor of helm command do supersede claw in mid/late game. If do consider claw as part of your repertoire , have to consider the factor listed whether if it suit your purpose.
i do suppose that a roaming minion is harder to kill as well you need minion to heal.
precisely due to their greed, you get your wallfeed

[Burn]

Wall feed should never be taken by main titan, main titan grabs experience from workers (get magic coral if there's tonnes of exp. feed), minions grab gold. Experience means bigger mana pool, attack damage (two hit builders) and most of all health and skillset. The experience/gold gained from walls should be enough for minions until wall feed runs out and you start splitting minions for lumber bases. The only reason why you'd station your main hero mid would be fear of minion gank or annoying builders golding so you have to clear mid walls faster. Most builders won't gold if there are no mid walls.

-Burn

[seacow]

it is more economical for minion to nuke seed than main titan, a more relavant topic about camping has be post, it is not so relavant to argue here.

[Burn]

It's still pertinent to this topic, fiery jaw is, most of the time, held on the main titan. People use this item to kill walls with the main titan for more efficiency. It might shave a lot of time off each wall if a builder is repairing, but if no builder is repairing, you don't really gain much speed, anyway, it's much better to pearl in the middle of a group of seeds and have more than one minion/titan nuke all at the same time, or use chimaera scouts to nuke seeds with a magic coral, life essence or replenish potion.

My point is that fiery claw is not a farming item, it is a ganking/support killing/ward block item.

-Burn

[seacow]

you hold the premise that main titan can receive more experience by nuking/active farming, therefore main titan should not camping.
A sylph's nuke can hit more unit than its minion therefore more receiving more experience however a grant's minion nuke can hit more unit than the main therefore i show that your statement is inconclusive.
i hold the premise that more damage lead to a faster income from wall, that is a certain true if hold in comparison with only damage, the one with more damage does rake in more money. (both have same speed that is.)Thus the argument of which item better suit it(relative to damage and price factor) , which i came to conclude that fiery claw indeed is the better of all, except when it came to convertible. Which you point out and emphasis the other use of claw which i do not deny.

the way i felt how you present your argument is that, why not camp mini and have main farm, but then would have this deviant from the point of this article,wouldn't my other topic be more pertinent?

[Burn]

Most of my games, when I play titan, I nearly always get early minions, before 10mins. after titan spawns, and obviously millions of minions after that. I use one early minion to farm mid walls because they don't give much experience. At this stage in the game, I hardly ever get the chance to get walld in/out, so there is not much mid walls. I send extra minions to outer lumber bases so that builders have to re-lumber base or tower base, which make them vulnerable to ganks and etc., which can result in more minions. Most of the time I don't bother rotating minions around for bases, I just rotate minions around and early siege when possible because I love sieging, and I don't play to win in pubs. I need the early experience on my main titan for at least lvl 5 and the early gold from mainly builder kills for sieging items. Obviously, in my play-style of draining the builder's lumber out and preventing early lumber feed by killing the turtle works, and I'll continue to play like this until I find a more interesting play-style which will make me play more island defense in high ping. Having my main titan farming mid walls with my minion(s) is not in any way fun and requires nearly no micro to do, and allows builders to gather lumber and have vision of my titan 90% of the time.

TL;DR Since this is in the guides section, I personally won't agree to fiery claw being a farming item, as it only shaves non-precious seconds in your farming cycle. If you agree to this, then there is no need in reading the rest of the post.

-Burn