Dota School for short time

[I-N-S-A-N-E]

I always get crits after rad, works great with germinate.

[Aghnaar]

On ma weaver I never get boots unless I rly need them. I leave the fountain with zero items, i buy a ring of health to make perseverance and then I start farming hardcore. If I can farm 3800 without to die, I will go rad before linkens, but if opponents have many targeted disables, I will go linkens first. As for basher, no thanks, i will go Mkb on Weaver, getting three ministun in a row with 100 bonus dmge each is simply amazing(30% chances).Or heart of tarrasque, depending on opponents, because with a heart, linkens and radiance, not a single hero can take u down easy, so u can run around all the time letting radiance burn them.

Btw, the only ranged heroes I get basher are Huskarand Drow. And Sniper if i wanna be rly annoying

[NutzSucksHard]

MKB break geminate effect cause it is a 'attack modification'. I know, it is dumb! So Unless you have to fight an hard PA... I won't recommand this item. Buriza instead. Like I said, mkb is to avoid miss effect and the AS% it add (+ dmg). But on weaver, AS isn't a big deal with geminate. Secondo, if there's no 'dodging' hero (no one with fly and no one with a miss like PA) than you're getting mkb for the dmg? Get buriza, yes it is not same amount of Damage BUT it add chance of doing a great crit... Geminate 'triple' hit is op with this item. If you make a double crit while geminate, your opponent will have the scare of his life and will run away, swarm him/invis + rad (if rad you have) you'll dmg him so much that he'll cry.

-Nutz

[Aghnaar]

No, Mkb doesn't break germinate man. Old days, that items were still stacking, double mkb weaver was mainstream

Geminate Attack - Allows Weaver to dispatch two swarms, attacking an enemy twice.
The extra attack will not trigger other attack effects (such as critical strike) and overrides Unique Attack Modifiers.

That means that with mkb, the extra attack will not have true strike, but can still proclaim the mini-bash and the extra dmge, since the only attack modifier mkb has is true strike when it's active.

[NutzSucksHard]

How stubborn you're. If true strike is active you won't hit with geminate. Ever

The extra attack will not trigger other attack effects (such as critical strike) and overrides Unique Attack Modifiers.

That means that with mkb, the extra attack will not have true strike, but can still proclaim the mini-bash and the extra dmge, since the only attack modifier mkb has is true strike when it's active.

You're wrong, you can get two crit with geminate, but you won't have the extra swarm effect with MKB.

Now, --- > You're right (if what you meant was to turn OFF true strike); if you turn off ture strike effect. (Inactive) geminate works I give it to you . That can be a good item... Still I like this item for his 'no miss' and not for his dmg it provide. Didn't ever tried the item putting it inactive.

[Aghnaar]

Even if there is a crit displayed on geminate attack, it is a fake crit. Fake like a crit or bash that u get if phase boots are active. And yea, I'm stubborn as hell on that

[NutzSucksHard]

Well if it is a fake... I don't get why I got once a triple crit and raped a hero with 1.8 k hp but ok, it's fake -.-... For the phase part I don't know anything. Foror the crit there's nothing fake :9 from this experience (three hit kill).

[VirusHunter]

1st of all, let me say that you will NEVER hit with germinate when you have MKB with true shot ON. NutzSucksHard is 100% correct with this statement. this is what i found out which made me search for a better item to get hence why i got abyssal and never looked back.

but let me just say this nutz. abyssal blade is +100 physical damage per hit right. and radiance is +60 physical and then +50 magic damage per second. so in theory you get +110 damage per second. but if u look at it like this; you will get 2-3 hits with weaver per second depending on if germinate is on cd or not. so you will get +600 damage per second if no bash's hit where as with radiance you will only get +170 damage IF you are versing a hero with normal magic resis. so i dont see how radiance would be more effective. you are right that in a team fight your OVERALL damage might add up to more dps however with abyssal its more direct damage allowing you to kill one by one a lot faster.

[Aghnaar]

Man, geminate attack overrides everything that has an attack modifier, hence crits, orbs and stuff. U don't need to have true strike off, it's just that the hit that u get from geminate, has NO true strike and it can miss, unlike your other attacks... No need to analyze this shit more, it's pretty simple

[VirusHunter]

yes but you are wrong man :/ thats what we are trying to tell you. its your prerogative if you dont wanna believe us. but its just how it is.

[Aghnaar]

Well, I just tested it and u're right about that, u need to have true strike off to use geminate. When did this change occured lol? I tested all those items on weaver though, crits are never proclaimed, bashes too(all fake), the only shit u get is the extra dmge from mkb, so the rule is still the same. Old war3 engine was letting u use mkb on weaver and it was a MUST GET item, aparently now it's changed. In dota 2 u can use mkb true strike with geminate normally, thats why I thought that it still could happen in dota 1. A test will persuade you
Anyways, mkb is better than basher to stop chanelling spells on ranged heroes.

[VirusHunter]

yeah the mini stun has a greater chance of hitting than.bash. however basher on weaver will stun once in a while with germinate. I not sure if the damage procs but the stun deff does.

[FlowerSnow]

Disclaimers : Late in night, typed it fast. Thanks for my poor.. but poor you know.. Fuck it ...

Basher total price is almost 3 k. getting 800 more for 60 dmg... Not a big deal. The 'stun' chance is nothing = 10%... This item doesn't belong on my weaver.

weaver farms easy with germinate. if you need radiance to farm then maybe you should work on something else other than your item build.

I never said that I had problem with farm. Said it is FASTER thus you get more gold and more item quicker, your weaver get bigger faster. Also, in team fight, you'll doing more dmg to all your opponents than with a basher wich is useless cause you have team mate in plus to make 'bash/stun'. If you play 1v1 maybe?... I rather sheepstick with weaver than basher... If you're looking for a disable, go for this....

[spoiler=]Rather go on weaver : Rad/Fly/Crit/Heart/BKB Or Rapier /Tread than getting off one of these for a basher. This is 'average' build. People can go full dmg instead of heart etc.[/spoiler]

I'm not telling your build isn't good, but if you face a decent player, even if you have a stun, if he got one, you're fucked too.. Also the cd on stun is one min if I'm not wrong... That's to big... Rather get Rad/demon edge... Dmg + Dmg per second kill more. Swarm him = dmg per sec/armor reduce + rad effect+sucuchi = 300-400 dmg just running around him with swarm and invis for what, 2-3 second...

In number, if you run around him for 3 second = 150dmg from rad~ + lvl4invis 150dmg~ + swarm dmg30 per hit + reduction of armor... Total of 300-400 dmg ez and all that, without making yourself visible (so the ennemies don't hit you at all while doing these dmg.) Swarm give you vision, so you won't lose his track to kill. Hit him safely and stay in aoe to let him get even more dmg from that radiance.

You know, I don't base my killing on 'luck' to have a bash, but on the amount of heavy dmg I can do without being hit. ... But, you know, that's my opinion ^^

In conclusion, I feel that radiance cost less, help more on farm, do (let's be nice) same amount of dmg of abysal(stun for burn effect). The only thing it doesn't add is the lil hp... But the cost is way to different for this such low addition. Also it is strengh add, not hp. For the same price you have more HP with a vitality booster --> Heart. So with a Booster/Rad

5150 price of rad versus 6750 abysal. 6250 price of rad and booster. I can get a boot in + and I have three item for the price of one... Ok, now you'll tell me the strengh it add is good? Let's see.

Weaver stats :

Strength
15 + 1.5 -----> Every strengh + in stats will give to nerub : +19 hp. Abysall give 10 so + 190 hp. Booster give? = 250.
Agility
14 + 2.5
Intelligence
15 + 1.8

In the end, it's 60 dmg per hit versus 100 = 40 difference balanced with a 50 dmg from burn. Both item do same amount of dmg (range of weaver is lower than range of burn effect, hence it do 50 dmg per sec anytime you're 'punching' an opponent. So the dmg is kinda the same. I'll not lie to you, when they have BKB, the stun of abysal work ? I'm not sure, if it does, it is the only advantage I see hence raidance doesn't go through bkb being magical dmg. (You have your opinion and mine, you can play with that build and be godly as me having rad and pwn).

Love to debate a bit

agreed. only range hero that i get abyssal in late game is dk.

[FlowerSnow]

MKB break geminate effect cause it is a 'attack modification'. I know, it is dumb! So Unless you have to fight an hard PA... I won't recommand this item. Buriza instead. Like I said, mkb is to avoid miss effect and the AS% it add (+ dmg). But on weaver, AS isn't a big deal with geminate. Secondo, if there's no 'dodging' hero (no one with fly and no one with a miss like PA) than you're getting mkb for the dmg? Get buriza, yes it is not same amount of Damage BUT it add chance of doing a great crit... Geminate 'triple' hit is op with this item. If you make a double crit while geminate, your opponent will have the scare of his life and will run away, swarm him/invis + rad (if rad you have) you'll dmg him so much that he'll cry.

-Nutz

for me, rad is depends on game but mkb, i always get it. if you turn off trueshot. you still get geminate.
linken mkb buriza or if i go gank in early game i go medal first

[BlackSpade]

mkb on weaver
somewhat waste of gold.. atleast in dota1
chance to proc 100dmg + minibash is huge deal to be turned off.
to me, items with attack modifier are some what waste to buy on weaver in dota 1
but ofc these items can be bought!! i sometimes buy mask of madness and/or blink dagger (actually i pretty much buy blink dagger on every hero ) on weaver cuz games are fun buying trolly items