Make Alias checker public again

[RESTLESS]

In general making the alias checker public again will only increase the enjoyment of gaming on ENT bots. People will be able to use the alias checker for a variety of things from realizing that the 1k elo that just made winning that game very hard was actual a player in the top ten giving the player a sense of pride about the game they just won rather than "Omg that noob just almost raped me". Also when life happens and people can't remain as active as they might want to be they can use the alias checker to find new accounts that old friends are playing on. While some people may be loners and state this isn't a dating website where you can hook up with old flirts many people would argue playing a game like dota with someone they know who knows their gameplay style is much more fun than someone who can't work with your or understand what the hell you are even trying to accomplish.

Arguements facing this:
1.This makes it easier for ban dodgers?

I will believe this when I get a thorough explanation. I would love for you to explain to me how Clan ENT plans to track anyone they banned who decided to make a new ip and a new permanent account to play on? The only way you can perma ban people would be through their bnet cd key which is obviously not an option for you.

2. We don't want to share aliases?

Why this was never a problem in the past what does it matter if aliases are shown. Allowing aliases to be shown is the only way to help ensure a fair game with the amount of smurfing and stacking going on. HIDING THE ALIAS CHECKER HAS ONLY MADE IT EASIER FOR PLAYERS TO SMURF STACK AND HIDE ELO.

All in all if you wont make this public AGAIN you should at least create a section where a moderator would help you to reunite with a buddy you have no other way of connecting back up with. When I made a post asking for help finding my friend I was made to feel that looking up his alias would be as hard as writing a program for a toilet that wipes my ass when in fact in would be a ten second mission.

While I may be wrong I personally feel that a big reason it was privatized was due to problems with people finding mods on aliases trolling the community or players accusing others of intentional game ruining because their other account has good stats. If this were the reason put a tighter leash on your mods and change the rules for game ruining to include the fact that you can't accuse someone of ruining because they did bad and their other account has good stats.

Just make it public and help your gaming community to thrive as much as it can before it dies.

[Metall-Drago]

Try to use the search function and find out why it was made a private tool instead of throwing random thoughts.

I do not see !alias being available for public again anytime soon and would call this thread wasted efforts, but you are free to try of course.

[RESTLESS]

Try to use the search function and find out why it was made a private tool instead of throwing random thoughts.

I do not see !alias being available for public again anytime soon and would call this thread wasted efforts, but you are free to try of course.

They are not random thoughts but rather things that I have observed happening within the ENT community.

Please enlighten me with the thread. Considering this effected the public this thread should have been put on the home page at the point it was removed to inform the community but it wasn't.

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=6840&hilit=alias+checker+private&start=20

in this thread UAKF.B defends the alias checker to the death I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT CHANGED. All moderators in this thread who want to privatize the alias checker are doing some form of sweeping problems the ENT moderator community is having under the rug so they do not have to deal with the public

[Iznogood]

the are numerous of threads in the public forums if you just use the search:
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=alias+checker&start=10

Here are a few examples..
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=14946&p=71748&hilit=alias+checker#p71748
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=17092&p=79981&hilit=alias+checker#p79981

Claiming that Uak.b defends the alias checker to the death is just something you must have misunderstood:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=14115&p=67662&hilit=alias+checker#p67662

[RESTLESS]

the are numerous of threads in the public forums if you just use the search:
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=alias+checker&start=10

Here are a few examples..
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=14946&p=71748&hilit=alias+checker#p71748
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=17092&p=79981&hilit=alias+checker#p79981

Claiming that Uak.b defends the alias checker to the death is just something you must have misunderstood:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=14115&p=67662&hilit=alias+checker#p67662

I personally feel as if you just went and found random threads and posted them. The three threads you posted have one single comment from uakf.b where he says one word "no".

This reply you just made to my suggestion is irrelevant and not helpful probably because you did not take the time to read.(neither the thread i posted or the ones you did) All in all I have not seen any good reason for the alias checker being taken away and the reasoning you posted is "We intended it as a moderation tool even though it was public so we just decided to take it away after everyone got used to it" (makes tons of sense?)

That is not a true or good reason for removing it considering it did not create any problems except for mods who were trying to abuse their power or troll their own community.

In general uakf.b had a very strong opinion to keep the alias checker public in the thread I posted going against the opinions of several mods and their is no evidence on the public forum as to why it was changed and made private.
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=6840&hilit=alias+checker+private&start=20

[EdgeOfChaos]

I would love for you to explain to me how Clan ENT plans to track anyone they banned who decided to make a new ip and a new permanent account to play on? The only way you can perma ban people would be through their bnet cd key which is obviously not an option for you.

Please trust me when I say I have my ways of finding ban dodgers. Methods I'd rather not release to the public for fear of them being countered by smart dodgers.

Anyways, as I have said before, I am in full support of this. I think the argument that it is primarily a tool for catching ban dodgers is faulty - It's essentially useless for finding ban dodgers, as it doesn't display an IP.

Don't hold your breath though. This will get rejected.

[RESTLESS]

I would love for you to explain to me how Clan ENT plans to track anyone they banned who decided to make a new ip and a new permanent account to play on? The only way you can perma ban people would be through their bnet cd key which is obviously not an option for you.

Please trust me when I say I have my ways of finding ban dodgers. Methods I'd rather not release to the public for fear of them being countered by smart dodgers.

Anyways, as I have said before, I am in full support of this. I think the argument that it is primarily a tool for catching ban dodgers is faulty - It's essentially useless for finding ban dodgers, as it doesn't display an IP.

Don't hold your breath though. This will get rejected.

Edge I do trust that you have some sort of method for catching ban dodgers but I simply fail to see how the removal of the alias checker has to do with this. I greatly appreciate your post and your service to the ENT community as you are one of the best mods in terms of objectivity and getting your job done without concern to defending other mods and admins in battles that aren't yours.

Thank you for your comment stating it is a faulty tool for catching ban dodgers.(This is especially legit b/c I know you of all people to be the one out there catching them most often.)

I won't hold my breath but I can try and I will continue to try until I either get an answer that is truly legit for its removal or it gets made public again.

[teller55]

I can't remember the exact details of the several reasons used to remove the tool from public use. I can dig through some archives for you from that time if you desire.

Can you also give a couple benefits that you feel making the tool public would provide and some rational behind them? When deciding on things of this nature, the more detailed and benefit driven you can be, the better your chances are for getting things approved.


I will also check into this topic to moderate it when I can, users should avoid posts that are useless and try to provide constructive criticism of the arguments given, or their support. If support is given, please give the reason why you support the idea, not just posting "!Support" (which actually means "not-Support" using logical negation so it really doesn't make sense.) Any useless, non-contributory, or off-topic posts may be modded or deleted, be aware.



EDIT: So looking back, it looks like the decision was made in a staff meeting (meaning it wasn't on the forums) I'm in the process of accessing the logs. After I have finished downloading them, I'll comb through them and look for the relevant pieces and let you know what I can post.

[teller55]

So at this moment I'm not going to paste in the chat logs (too long and I'm going to have to comb out random chat of other topics.)

I wasn't at this staff meeting, but from the looks of it, there wasn't much reasoned discussion, it was some general chat about the topic, and then it was brought to a vote.
Keep Public: 3
Revert to Private: 5
No Opinion: 2
Total Votes: 10

I can't be sure with 100% certainty what the size of the staff was at the time, but my guess is this was probably about 40% of the staff (~25 staff total)


Due to the above, I think we could probably have another discussion on this topic and see what people have to say. Then after a period of discussion, we can discuss an outcome.




People can make some reasoned arguments of why they think the tool should be public and what specific benefits they believe it would bring. The same can be done by opponents of the measure. People can post their reasons of why the tool should be kept for Administrative use for dealing with ban dodgers/etc.

[Virulence]

It should stay private.

My reasons are my own, and the staff knows why.

[bit]

this tool never meant to be public. people can play on second accounts for a different reasons. there should be right to stay incognito.

pubs used it mostly for stalking, and there was alot of problems and flame wars because of it, so no thanks, i'm not sure that staff wants to deal with it again

[Metall-Drago]

I agree with bit. Re-publishing the tool will cause even more elo-whoring, dodging and all the shit that creates hostility inside the community. People are using alts now, so what? They have the right to do so, if they like to be incognito they should allowed to be.

The idea behind the alias tool is for moderating purposes and not to stalk people or dodge anyone as enemy who is decent.

[DreathKnight]

The only way you can perma ban people would be through their bnet cd key which is obviously not an option for you.

I find your lack of knowledge...disturbing. There is a somewhat alternative method in dealing with dodgers but I'd rather not say it out in public. You may be right about us not being able to do a CD key ban but that method is not 100% foolproof even if it was possible.

Now you may think, after reading my post, that I'm completely against opening the alias check back up to the public but I'm really not. Though I don't support it being completely open to the public, I do think there should be a more lenient requirement than just being a moderator. Perhaps if you're a donator and/or have a reasonable post count you should be granted access to the alias tool.

[RESTLESS]

The only way you can perma ban people would be through their bnet cd key which is obviously not an option for you.

I find your lack of knowledge...disturbing. There is a somewhat alternative method in dealing with dodgers but I'd rather not say it out in public. You may be right about us not being able to do a CD key ban but that method is not 100% foolproof even if it was possible.

Now you may think, after reading my post, that I'm completely against opening the alias check back up to the public but I'm really not. Though I don't support it being completely open to the public, I do think there should be a more lenient requirement than just being a moderator. Perhaps if you're a donator and/or have a reasonable post count you should be granted access to the alias tool.

You do not have to disclose it but I am 100% sure that if someone wanted to they can dodge a ban without anyway of you guys catching them. yes banning the cd key could possibly not work because they could buy a new copy but still 40 bucks every time you get banned is a little ridiculous. Also this really has not much to do with the subject because edge has pointed out already the alias checker is a faulty tool in catching ban dodgers. But sorry for disturbing you with my lack of knowledge lol.

BENEFITS FROM ALIAS CHECKER

1. Reconnecting with old friends.
-Wc3 is an old game that many people seem to take breaks from but never leave behind. Sometimes these breaks are a few weeks months or years even. When people come back to a game and find friends still playing they are more likely to continue to play that game rather than walk away from it.(Especially in the case of games like DOTA where peoples play style's can really compliment each other)

-Since the alias checker allows the user to see the list of accounts used by the player and gives the last seen date people are often able to find if their friend rather easily if they are still active. In turn people finding their old friends would promote a gaming environment in which people would continue to come back and game more often.(Maybe this could help Wc3 and the Clan ENT community stay alive and possibly grow)

2. Watchdog role
-Moderators/Admins are most often the voice of reason and basically act as a kind of police to the community. With the power comes responsibility and the potential for abuse. By reopening the alias checker it allows the public to keep an eye on mods who may be acting wrongly on different accounts. (This is not to say mods should be report for simple flaming or trolling or just trying to have fun without the pressure of being a mod.) Rather this is for those who are breaking serious rules behind the back of the community. I do understand moderators go through a probation period and are usually watched and question of their actions but who knows what they could be up to especially if a particular mod ends up with some weird grudge.

3.Allows users to create more thorough ban requests.
-This could be a new link to be added to BRQ's as to make the job a little more simple for moderators while also providing the public with a useful tool.

4. Allows to help to create more truly fair games that people can enjoy playing.
-It is common practice for people to smurf and hide elo or skill and often can end in a ridiculously unfair game where a single high elo player earns much more elo than they deserve. There should be a way for someone to see this kind of a play coming rather than getting locked into a game where they have absolutely no fun due to the differences in skill level which was in no way apparent through stats.

5. The alias checker makes people feel special because I haven't seen any other communities offer a similar tool.

Below I would like to take the time to address a few concerns about making this public:

1.Flame wars- I fail to see how the alias checker leads to flame wars. Battle.net has multiple commands so that you do not need to hear people whispering that you don't want to.(/dnd and /o igw) if the problem then somehow follows you into game the Ent bots have a very useful ignore command.

2.People use it to dodge decent enemies and whore elo - In my opinion people use it rather to ensure they are playing a fair game Why should people who constantly use smurfs to boost their elo(whoring it if you will) gain a a super advantage because you don't want us to see who we are really facing.(The elo system was made and truly only works correctly if everyone uses one account right?)

3.Stalking- In bit's post it was rather unclear what he meant by stalking but from the context I take it he means people following someone in particular around flaming them or attempting to snipe their elo. In general /dnd or /o igw can come in handy here which leaves us to the problem of someone adding your new alias and following you to your games using the /whois command.

-While this may be annoying or considered a problem to some in general "sniping" someone's elo has grown to be a part of dota as well as flaming which I feel is so easily dealt with no matter how one slices it. In general if someone wants to snipe it is their option as I see no rules against it and feel removing the alias checker so people don't have to deal with it is ridiculous.

4.Want to stay incognito-If you want to stay incognito just deny being who you are. I never knew being incognito was such an important part of the game unless your trying to do some trolling and take advantage of things. Usually people who play team games like to play with a familiar team and if they want to be incognito they can make a new account which will be incognito until you finish your first game and you are put down on the alias list.

5.Problems with people accusing game ruining b/c another alias has good stats
-Simple fix rather than removing the alias checker simply change the rules to include that simply because someone plays bad and has account they had good stats on does not signify game ruining.

One thing that I feel is important to distinguish is that much of the hostility on the forums comes from the actions people do in game which have nothing to do with the use of alias checker. Yes people's hostility may increase when they use the alias checker and realize that their rival just sniped them or that the dude who ruined their game was actually a mod who is suppose to be there to promote fair fun game play. The hostility comes from the game not the alias checker and the hostility will always be a part of the game especially extremely competitive ones where it is necessary to rely on your team mate such as dota.

All in all I hope that this work I have put into this thread will result in either the alias checker being made public again or a find a friend section on the forum where a moderator would be more than happy to donate 15 seconds of their time to tell you the last account your friends was seen on as well as the date. I really do not feel that this would be too much to ask especially considering it could possibly help the longevity of having a solid player base in the ENT community.

[Metall-Drago]

I just see that you are

a) Looking for your friends, which cant be good ones since you do not have any skype/steam or anything that can lead to them. Also the alias tool doesnt show the last date as you are thinking. It does not even show all the accounts due to dynamic IPs, means it will most likely not help you at all.
Why we do not give out that information you are asking for? because of simple privacy protection. If people want to play on alts and "not be found", they can be. The exception are mods who eventually see who they are, but we are not going to shout in all chat "DAT GUY IS XYZ's SMURF OH MY GOD HES HIGH ELO BUT SO BAD REPAWT INTENTIONAL FEED" - Which will happen for sure with the alias tool being published again.

b) You are basically accusing all the admins to be trolling and rule breaking on alts, which is either caused due to you hating or being jelly. If mods would go on alts to break rules, why arent people reporting us since they wouldnt be scared to report random accounts, like some are to report the mods accounts? That argument is completely senseless, and if you are thinking someone is not doing their job or doesnt fit the mod position you can always make a complaint. You can also apply for mod yourself since it seems you think you know everything better, thus you should be the perfect candidate for a mod position?

The alias tool will bring some benefits that are without a doubt, not bad. (like reducing the alting), however, the alias tool will bring even worse out of the people. It will encourage people to dodge alot. It will pressure people alot to play 110% or they get flamed since they "cannot hide now". Some people just want to make a smurf and play only for fun, play a hero they like that might does not fit to the lineup or try out new heroes making you lose in the end. - I know what I'm talking about with alot of dota2 experience. - And the "tryhard factor" is increasing in dota1 aswell.
There are people who are playing on alts and do fun tactics and strats (dota again) or just trolling around a bit with unusual builds or w.e. Those people have the right to do so and not fear getting flamed or kicked out of games when people see them in their games on another account.

It will also increase hate-votekicks on people, since people will see who that guy is and kick him without hesitation if they do not like them/their stats/w.e.
Best example is ID where alot of people are basically on alts since there are some people who completely dodge any decent enemy titan, and people who are flaming any decent titan as mher and votekick them. Public alias tool will break ID hard, I'm predicting. Nobody will play a game against a decent titan without a bunch of friends. Titans wont be able to play against some decent people, since those are instant dodging. People will votekick titans because they want to play against noob titans.

The possibility of checking peoples alt accounts is based on simple IP-Check, which was never meant to be a tool for the public. Or do you know any other bot where people can see other peoples accounts/IPs ?

You claim that the alias tool is helpful for the community, but I just see personal reasons that make you demand this.